Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cristian Guerrero (2nd nomination)

:{{la|Cristian Guerrero}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [http://toolserver.org/~snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Cristian_Guerrero_(2nd_nomination) Stats])

:({{Find sources|Cristian Guerrero}})

Non-notable career minor league baseball player. He is the cousin of Vladimir Guerrero and did achieve the feat of 5 home runs in consecutive plate appearances, but none of that seems to have manifested itself in significant coverage independent of the subject. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:28, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Baseball-related deletion discussions. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:28, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

• Delete. Non-notable minor league baseball player. Never played a MLB game, therefore not entitled to a preromsumption of notability per WP:NBASEBALL. Insufficient depth of coverage in multiple, independent, reliable sources to satisfy the general notability guidelines per WP:GNG. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 17:44, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
• Keep Aside from coverage in baseball publications such as Baseball America, Ballpark Digest, and Seamheads, I also found feature stories in the Connecticut Post, Fredericksburg Lance-Star (May 29, 2005) and San Bernardino Sun (July 11, 2003). The nominator supported keeping Zech Zinicola, whose page was kept just yesterday, so this seems like an odd AfD. Guerrero has more news coverage and a fairly notable pro baseball record to his name, plus the MLB family ties. It's also likely that Guerrero has been covered in Spanish-language outlets in his native Dominican Republic. - Bbny-wiki-editor (talk) 00:16, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

:*I found the coverage of Zinicola, but I didn't find significant coverage on Guerrero. Can you please provide some links? If they're the same that HBWS provided in the first AfD, I don't think those are sufficient. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:56, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

::*Yes, same feature stories as the first AfD (I didn't notice until now), plus a bunch of additional stories in Baseball America (top prospects, indy coverage, etc.), Seamheads, [http://ballparkdigest.com/201006122837/independent-baseball/features/did-cristian-guerrero-set-an-amazing-hr-record-and-no-one-knows this article] at Ballpark Digest, etc. I don't understand how you deemed Zech Zinicola to be notable based on a story in the L.A. Times and a story in the Fredericksburg Lance-Star but you don't consider Guerrero to be notable despite stories in Baseball America, Ballpark Digest, and the very same Fredericksburg Lance-Star. Personally, I'm in favor of a tighter interpretation of WP:GNG, but there's no way--none at all--that Guerrero is less notable than Zinicola. - Bbny-wiki-editor (talk) 19:09, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

:::*Baseball America, Seamheads and Ballpark Digest are trade papers, which do not receive quite the same stature as a publication like the LA Times or Fredericksburg Lance-Star, which does indeed contribute towards Guerrero's notability since that article does describe Guerrero in some depth. Simply put I accept that this is a borderline case and my viewing of it is that while Zinicola passed by a little, Guerrero fails by a little. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:16, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

::::*If the above are discounted as "trade papers," then it seems the same should be true for MiLB.com, which is basically an in-house p.r. operation for Minor League Baseball (and which you used as two of the main sources in support of keeping Zinicola's page). You're also totally ignoring the fact that Guerrero has likely received extensive coverage in Spanish-language publications in his native Dominican Republic. I'm not trying to give you a hard time here; it just seems like you have inconsistent standards in these AfDs. Take away Zinicola's PED suspension and several articles about routine procedural moves (promotions, Rule 5), and he's about as non-notable as a MiLB player can get. Just about every minor leaguer in America has been featured in his hometown paper a time or two. - Bbny-wiki-editor (talk) 20:12, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

:::::*I think MLB.com and MiLB.com are a level above Baseball America etc. in level of coverage, but you makea good point about the Spanish language publications. I'm not taking this personally, I respect the arguments you are making, especially since our criteria should be as uniform as possible, even though we arbiters of notability are only human :) – Muboshgu (talk) 00:12, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

• Delete May become notable later, but is not at this time. AutomaticStrikeout (T • C) 18:55, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. — Frankie (talk) 20:28, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

• Keep It's a close call but this guy seems to edge over the line for me based on the coverage and his unusual feet of hitting all those homers in a row.Spanneraol (talk) 14:55, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
• Keep. My opinion has not changed since the article's last AFD. -Hit bull, win steak^(Moo!) 09:08, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
• Delete - Fails WP:GNG. The refs are stats only, no editorial coverage.--Nixie9 (talk) 01:58, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

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:Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, j⚛e decker^talk 19:07, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

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• Keep. The sources posted above as well as in the first AFD exist to establish the notability of the subject. It seems that he meets criterion 6 of WP:NBASEBALL based on the above sources. I would like to see a couple of examples of the spanish language sources that were mentioned above. The article needs to be sourced, but the sources do exist. The article is of very borderline notability, but I believe it is notable nonetheless. Tazerdadog (talk) 20:53, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

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:Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Bushranger _{One ping only} 19:14, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

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• Note: While sources are mentioned in the above discussion, they have yet to be added to the article - which, essentially, remains a UBLP. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 19:16, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

:*So fix it? Agent Vodello^{OK, Let's Party, Darling!} 19:58, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

::*I would - if I had the sources or if they were online. See the comment above by Bbny - they are print sources. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 21:37, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

:::*That's what libraries are for. -Hit bull, win steak^(Moo!) 14:51, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

::::*On the assumption that (1) the library would have it, or (2) the library could get it. My experience with our library here is that interlibrary loan requests are likely to be lolno'd. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 02:02, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.