Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Djokovic–Murray rivalry

:{{la|Djokovic–Murray rivalry}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [http://toolserver.org/~snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Djokovic%E2%80%93Murray_rivalry Stats])

:({{Find sources|Djokovic–Murray rivalry}})

This has been discussed verbatim Per WP:NSPORTS where it says that "Sports rivalries are not inherently notable", and furthermore Tennis guidelines say the same. This is not an encyclopedic article rather a fans take on contemporary tennis, which is not encyclopaedic worthy. See Federer–Murray rivalry is not even consider to be a rivalry, and it was just deleted. HotHat (talk) 06:34, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

:If the two were unlikely to ever play again, that would give one just cause to delete the page, however both are heading into their prime years, and are likely to have at least 5 years more on the ATP Tour, so will undoubtedly play more matches together in years to come. This is a page that one can keep adding to until both men's careers are at an end, I mean the two played each other seven times in 2012 alone, and are currently ranked 1 and 2 in the world respectively, so provided they both make it deep into tournaments they will inevitably meet more times in competitive play as the years go on. And anyway, it's more of a rivalry than Federer-Roddick, which was possibly the most one-sided rivalry in history, Roddick winning only three matches out of 24. The main thing one can take away from this one is that the matches Djokovic and Murray play are usually very close, many of their matches have included tiebreaks or 7-5 scorelines in at least one set, and their last three Grand Slam matches have gone to four or five sets.

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Sir Rcsprinter, Bt (constabulary) @ 09:22, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

:: To be honest, I'm really divided. Djokovic vs. Murray is a genuine rivalry, they're both a week apart by age, have met in three Major finals (Djokovic leads 2-1) and the head-to-head is very close. We must not forget as well that they played out that memorable US Open final last year (2012 US Open – Men's Singles final) which Murray won to become the first British man to win a Major since the late 1930s. But on the flipside, they have never met each other since becoming 1 and 2 respectively, and probably will never get to see a match whilst they are 1 and 2 (for instance, Andy Murray is out of the French Open due to injury). Any meeting that takes place whilst they are 1 and 2 must come in a final, and I don't see any immediate finals between the two, given Nadal's recent return from injury. Nevertheless, I oppose the deletion of this article because of what I have said earlier - they are genuine rivals, both born a week apart and their three Major finals have been worthwhile. MasterMind5991 (talk) 13:46, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

:::In addition they have been playing each other since they were juniors, and having played 18 matches going into their primes is a considerable tally. That's around the same rate that the Agassi-Sampras rivalry developed, and they ended up playing each other 34 times. Also with regards to the rankings, we don't know how long Murray will hold on to the number 2 ranking, especially seeing as he has pulled out of Roland Garros, because if Federer reaches the final then he'll overtake Murray once again, so who knows, there may be a Wimbledon semifinal on the cards between the two. One more point worth making is that there are pages that exist of "rivalries" that are no longer active, but only included around 14 or 15 matches, for example the Serena Williams/Justine Henin "rivalry" - they only played 14 times, however that somehow merits an encyclopaedic article.

I've never heard these two referred to as rivals, if they are it certainly isn't a major rivalry like Federer vs Nadal or Sampras vs Agassi I call the big one bitey (talk) 01:45, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

• I am hearing many CRYSTALLBALL references in this debate and we cannot assume what will be, we have to take it for what it currently is at the moment. Federer-Murrary has played three grand slam finals see 2008 US Open, 2010 Australian Open and 2012 Wimbledon, which were all Federer wins nonetheless, but Murray took and beat Federer for Gold at the 2012 Summer Olympics. I even consider that a grander achievement than Murray's win over Djokovic at the 2012 US Open was. So, when I take all things into consideration this is no more notable than that was at the current moment in time. By the way, Henin-S. Williams is not a rivalry, and I will be advocating that for deletion as well, or someone else if they see fit. It is time we separate the wheat from the chaff, when it comes to these so-called "rivalries" in tennis.HotHat (talk) 03:53, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

:Comment - For the record, I don't think Federer-Murray rivalry should have been deleted. Unfortunately, the policy still seems too ambiguous on this. There are, as with this one, a variety of sources that state this is a rivalry. Same goes for Serena and Henin. See [http://www.aolnews.com/2010/01/29/henin-williams-rivalry-historically-bitter/] [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/wtatour/2296127/Serena-Williams-breaks-her-Justine-Henin-habit.html]. The Telegraph described Williams-Henin as "the most entertaining rivalry in women's tennis at the moment" but I'll leave that to any future AfD that may arise for that article. Spiderone 10:42, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

• Keep - Referred to as rivals in some articles. Including [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/atptour/9652918/Boris-Becker-Andy-Murray-against-Novak-Djokovic-is-the-hottest-ticket-in-world-tennis.html Telegraph] [http://www.thenational.ae/sport/tennis/australian-open-djokovic-murray-rivalry-lasts-through-their-ages The National] [http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/tennis/andy-murray-and-novak-djokovic-the-new-rivalry-8281243.html The Independent]. Admittedly, a lot of these are along the lines of "forget Rafa v Roger, this is the new rivalry" but it's just enough for this article to avoid the axe in my view. I will try to incorporate these into the article at some point soon when I have the time. Spiderone 21:00, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

• Keep - Per Spiderone. Soundwaweserb (talk) 02:17, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

• Keep - As far as I'm concerned, if Federer-Roddick stays, this one does. I'm actually surprised Murray vs. Federer got deleted, as that one is probably a little more notable than this one, especially after Wimbledon and the Olympics, but for me this has the potential to be one of the greatest rivalries, if last year is anything to go off anyway. Mwhittaker92 (talk) 21:55, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

• Keep - Per Mwhittaker92, if Federer-Roddick deserves an independent page, then this is more than worthy of it's own article, as it is a much more competitive rivalry than the aforementioned, plus they have already played 4 Grand Slam matches going into their prime years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thetradge (talk • contribs) 21:48, 2 June 2013‎ (UTC)

• Delete I have a clearly defined bar for these types of pages. I want to see reliable sources writing about the rivalry (i.e the rivalry is the subject of the article or better yet book) not merely calling the individuals rivals. J04n(talk page) 23:37, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.