Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Drei Ros

:{{la|Drei Ros}} – (View AfDView log)

:({{Find sources|Drei Ros}})

For one, unvarnished self-promotion. For another, "sourced" through blogs, video clips, passing mention in tabloids; nothing, in short, of substance. - Biruitorul ^Talk 02:00, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:03, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

• Delete - Pure vanispamcruftisement that fails WP:BAND … extensively edited by a WP:SPA in violation of WP:COI. Happy Editing! — {{User|68.239.65.132}} _{16:00, 4 November 2011 (UTC)}
• For the record, editing an article about yourself isn't prohibited or a violation of WP:COI. The editors aims definitely conflict with Wikipedia's but as I often see people believing that simply having a close connection prohibits one from editing an article, I think it bears mentioning. OlYeller21^Talktome 16:56, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
• Delete - per Wikipedia:Vanispamcruftisement ukexpat (talk) 16:14, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
• Comment - There's a good amount of essay/advert type language but the subject seems notable given the references provided in the article. Unless someone is willing to work on the article and clean it up, it needs to be deleted. Otherwise, I believe the subject is notable per WP:GNG. OlYeller21^Talktome 16:56, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

::It could be stubbed out too with just a few cites. But, yes, I'm seeing lots of romanian news sources about him.[https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Drei+Ros%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&surl=1#q=%22Drei+Ros%22&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=nws&source=lnt&tbs=ar:1&sa=X&ei=2Sy0Tqu5Jsm_gQeOoMGuBA&ved=0CA4QpwUoBQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=e64197a292d99008&biw=1280&bih=834].--Milowent • ^hasspoken 18:22, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

• Keep Delete Very obviously notable person that meets criteria #1 of WP:BAND, he has been discussed extensively in full length reliable Romanian news sources. Silverseren^C 22:16, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

:* Now that we've actually gone through all of the available sources and discussed them properly, I am convinced, for now, that he isn't notable, unless someone else brings more reliable sources to light discussing the subject. Silverseren^C 03:19, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

• Delete At this point, I would like to invoke WP:COMPETENCE when assessing the notion that "Romanian sources discuss Drei Ros". Yes, we know that googling him up in Romanian turns results, but how does it follow that those results are creditable as sources. Allow me to paraphrase the conclusion they induce: "The AfD nominator speaks Romanian, but he surely must be as ignorant as not to have tried googling up Drei Ros before this AfD debate here; he'd have seen all these quality reliable sources that any Anglophone can quickly assess as full length and reliable. Either that or he's on a deletionist campaign, or worse still he hates the Romanian superstar Drei Ros."
  I've clicked the link above, and these are the "quality" Romanian sources I get: Libertatea and Click!, the prototype Romanian tabloids, reprinting PR releases about him having released a clip or two, plus, once, a gossip column about him quitting basketball to go hip-hop (wow! would you guys have believed that basketball and rap could have any connection to each other? now they do: its name is Drei Ros); I won't even count promotional platforms such as BestMusic. And that's it: even with BestMusic, it's seven results in all.
  This also stands for "the references provided in the article" - I have verified and can confirm what Biruitorul noted in his AfD rationale above: the article cites "blogs, video clips [and] passing mention in tabloids"; in fact, some are just posted by Drei Ros or his promoters. No single music column in any specialized magazine, or cultural review of any sort, or even lifestyle magazine, seems to have ever bothered with Drei Ros; it was the author's responsibility, not mine, to verify that any reliable sources mention Drei Ros, but I did his homework and checked anyway: there aren't. He is not mentioned on musitronic.ro, on revistasunete.ro, on dilemaveche.ro, not even on beatfactor.ro or beatnights.ro. He only gets one mention on the hip hop review 4elemente.ro, but again a mere phrase with a link to his youtube video. Dahn (talk) 14:59, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

:Is [http://www.ziarulprahova.ro/stiri/cultura/63496/primul-rapper-roman-care-s-a-lansat-in-america an article in Prahova] also tabloid coverage? And you're going to have to explain how Libertatea is a tabloid, since it certainly doesn't appear to be as such and it has [http://www.libertatea.ro/detalii/articol/libertatea-277202.html extensive coverage of him]. He's also discussed in [http://www.ziarulprahova.ro/stiri/cultura/94747/my-mother-si-mai-da-mi-o-sansa-doua-melodii-lansate-de-nico another Prahova article]. Not to mention that there's probably sources out there for him playing basketball. Silverseren^C 16:46, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

::Libertatea [http://www.libertatea.ro/detalii/articol/site-ul-libertatea-cel-mai-vizitat-site-tabloid-a-doua-luna-la-rand-242622.html freely] [http://www.libertatea.ro/detalii/articol/libertatea-ro-fara-rival-intre-site-urile-tabloid-si-in-decembrie-270838.html admits] it's a tabloid. The second article in Prahova is actually about Nico, with just a phrase devoted to Drei Ros. As for the first: well, I suppose it's telling that he can get one poorly-written puff piece in his local paper, but [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1599&bih=1190&q=%22Drei+Ros%22+site%3Aevz.ro&gbv=2&oq=%22Drei+Ros%22+site%3Aevz.ro&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=627l8159l0l8432l28l28l2l11l0l0l206l1790l5.9.1l15l0 can't] [http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&biw=1599&bih=1190&gbv=2&q=%22Drei+Ros%22+site%3Agandul.info&oq=%22Drei+Ros%22+site%3Agandul.info&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=13638l15151l0l15422l11l10l0l8l0l1l203l387l0.1.1l2l0 get] [http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&biw=1599&bih=1190&gbv=2&q=%22Drei+Ros%22+site%3Acotidianul.ro&oq=%22Drei+Ros%22+site%3Acotidianul.ro&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=13883l15891l0l16139l13l13l0l12l0l0l133l133l0.1l1l0 any] [http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&biw=1599&bih=1190&gbv=2&q=%22Drei+Ros%22+site%3Ajurnalul.ro&oq=%22Drei+Ros%22+site%3Ajurnalul.ro&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=13000l14064l0l14367l6l5l0l0l0l3l248l835l1.3.1l5l0 mention] in the national newspapers, which are after all published just 60km away from his hometown. Or, for that matter, in the [http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&biw=1599&bih=1190&gbv=2&q=%22Drei+Ros%22+site%3Aseattletimes.nwsource.com&oq=%22Drei+Ros%22+site%3Aseattletimes.nwsource.com&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=17308l19216l0l19452l2l2l0l0l0l0l169l324l0.2l2l0 Seattle Times]. - Biruitorul ^Talk 17:01, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

::(edit conflict) No, Prahova, with its two PR-pushed articles on the guy (in its gossip column) is, as the title says, published for the good people of Prahova County - meaning that its circulation is way below average and its credibility... well, just read on and you'll perhaps see what level of credibility has be attributed to some of the most circulated national news sources in Romania.
For Libertatea, let's look into what third parties tell us (please note that I'm only going for the most respected kind of WP:RSes, without going into, say, the Romanian cultural magazines which now and again have a field day mocking Libertatea headlines, or the reputation it enjoys in other news media). [http://books.google.com/books?id=68nbtqst-CsC&pg=PA421&dq=libertatea+tabloid&hl=en&ei=qV65Tq3kBISesAaFu9DPCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=libertatea%20tabloid&f=false On 17 October almost the entire staff of the best-selling tabloid Libertatea, owned by Ringier, quit the paper in order to join Averea. The tabloid was afterwards rebranded as Click, with a format and style extremely similar to Libertatea's.] (Alex Ulmanu, "The Romanian Media Landscape", in Georgios Terzis, ed., European Media Governance, Intellect Books, U. of Chicago, 2007, p.421) [http://books.google.com/books?id=nZHATHfMo7gC&pg=PA185&dq=libertatea+tabloid&hl=en&ei=qV65Tq3kBISesAaFu9DPCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=libertatea%20tabloid&f=false the daily Libertatea, which was transformed from a newspaper for municipal information into a successful tabloid.] (Mihai Coman, "Press Freedom and Media Pluralism in Romania", in Andrea Czepek etc., eds., Press Freedom and Pluralism in Europe, Intellect Books, U. of Chicago, 2009, p.185) [http://books.google.com/books?id=dtVCrRifAiEC&pg=PA223&dq=libertatea+tabloid&hl=en&ei=qV65Tq3kBISesAaFu9DPCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CDwQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=libertatea%20tabloid&f=false Adevarul Holding plans to launch a tabloid that would compete with Libertatea, the Romanian tabloid with the largest circulation.] (T. Vlad, M. Balasescu, "Few Educators, Many Media and Journalism Programs", in Beate Josephi, ed., Journalism Education in Countries with Limited Media Freedom, Peter Lang, 2010, p.223) [http://books.google.com/books?id=kQ8cAQAAIAAJ&q=libertatea+tabloid&dq=libertatea+tabloid&hl=en&ei=qV65Tq3kBISesAaFu9DPCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CFIQ6AEwBw In this respect, the most popular daily - Libertatea, owned by Ringier Romania - is a case in point. Previously a quality paper, Libertatea is now a tabloid that offers mainly news in brief, erotic content etc.] (Orlin Spassov, Quality Press in Southeast Europe, Southeast European Media Centre, 2004) Feel free to [http://www.google.com/search?q=libertatea+tabloid&btnG=Search+Books&tbm=bks&tbo=1 continue the search on your own], if you still have doubts. But it's all bullshit reliability when compared to Prahova, isn't it.
Oh, but don't leave me curious about the other sources on him "playing basketball" - the man says he played basketball in the USA, so you should be able to easily retrieve those sources discussing the NBA stats of this transatlantic overachiever. Dahn (talk) 17:22, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

:::[http://www.explosionbasketball.net/leagues/rosters_profile.cfm?clientID=2746&leagueID=6887&playerID=315211&teamID=92477&pos=SF Found it]. He plays for the Snohomish County Explosion, currently in the National Athletic Basketball League, though for the past four years it was a part of the International Basketball League. And, if that is truly a professional basketball league as the article says, then he would fall under #1 of WP:ATHLETE for basketball. Silverseren^C 17:58, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

::::Ah, good old WP:ATHLETE, allowing us to keep - what? - 20% of the worthless articles here? 30%? Anyway, if his five minutes of play for the Snohomish County Explosion (a team that has how many dozens of fans, I wonder) validate his having an article here, then a) this proves that WP:ATHLETE is a seriously flawed policy, though we knew that long ago and b) perhaps we can remove content referring to his music "career", given its lack of coverage in reliable sources. - Biruitorul ^Talk 18:25, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

:::::(Before we get carried away:) According to Silver seren, this article passes WP:ATHLETE # 1, because Drei Ros made one appearance in the International Basketball League. But what WP:ATHLETE actually says, under "Basketball", is the following: "Basketball figures are presumed notable if they[:] 1. Have appeared in one game in the original American Basketball Association, Asociación de Clubs de Baloncesto, Euroleague, National Basketball Association, National Basketball League (Australia), National Basketball League (United States), Serie A, Women's National Basketball Association, or a similar major professional sports league. [...] 3. Have won an award, or led the league in a major statistical category of the Continental Basketball Association or NBA Development League." So the "one game" thing doesn't make the cut: he has not had any caps in any league that would qualify as major, as IBL's relationship to the NBA is clarified under our List of developmental and minor sports leagues. Which, at best, excludes him from criterion 1. But what about criterion 3? Has his one-game career, which he tore himself away from to rap, resulted in an award, or has his one two-point shot in a game propelled him to top of league stats? Highly unlikely, even if they were to use stoneware basketballs in that whole league...

:::::Yes, WP:ATHLETE is seriously flawed, but only because we get articles on other nobodies, and they stick around. This should not be the case here, as Drei Ros doesn't even reach that level of relatively "acceptable" obscurity.

:::::So no. Keep digging, Silver seren. Dahn (talk) 18:39, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

::::::No need to be rude about it. I'm just going through possibilities of notability. I don't care one way or the other about the subject, i'm just checking every avenue to see if he is notable or if he isn't. Silverseren^C 19:08, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

:::::::I have no personal problem with you, and sorry if I seemed rude - I was directing my humor at Drei Ros, not at you. What I was saying, and respectfully maintain, is that you were wrong. Dahn (talk) 19:19, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

• Just want to make sure I understand that [http://www.ziarulprahova.ro/stiri/cultura/63496/primul-rapper-roman-care-s-a-lansat-in-america] is not a "passing mention," right? That article might suck, but the nomination implied no dedicated articles to the subject existed. If we are going to shift the grounds of the nomination to require in-depth examinations of each source that apparently does exist, please let me know. This subject's article is not a unique phenomenon, any schmoe who lives in the United States and records some album in his native country's style seems to get some local coverage back home. Like, some ex-Bosnian pop star will now work as a welder in Texas, but can still can get coverage in Bosnia when he records a new CD.--Milowent • ^hasspoken 19:05, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

::Maybe not a passing mention (though it would cover only a couple of paragraphs in a regular print version), but it is braggadocio in one of the local newspapers published in his home town - it is indeed a "look at me mom" more than anything. Speaking for the nominator, I don't think that one is actually required to run through all the articles where Drei Ros is mentioned just to see if they're passing mentions or not. Dahn (talk) 19:19, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

:::I'm not saying the nomination was rashly done in violation of WP:BEFORE, just that we're shifting a bit in the rationale. No question, he's no Costi Ioniţă.--Milowent • ^hasspoken 19:53, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Why instead of spending so much time analyzing this article, don't just edit it and summarize it. Drei Ros is the 1st Eastern European rapper to collaborate with Akon and one of the few Eastern European rappers in US. I'm just a fan and I'm not a professional writer. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dreiros (talk • contribs) 2011-11-10T04:17:37‎

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.