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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ecuadorian security crisis

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__ to Crime in Ecuador. Seraphimblade Talk to me 07:08, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

=[[:Ecuadorian security crisis]]=

{{AFD help}}

:{{la|1=Ecuadorian security crisis}} – (View AfDView log | edits since nomination)

:({{Find sources AFD|title=Ecuadorian security crisis}})

Per WP:SYNTH and WP:NOTNEWS. The current version of the article is heavily based in the Spanish version, which at the same time is a compilation of prison riots and gang conflicts. Said term is barely used in the sources, not to mention experts or academics, which in turn suggests that it is also simply WP:TOOSOON to use this name. NoonIcarus (talk) 15:08, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 23:21, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

  • Comment What terms are used to refer to this by academics, news sources and other reliable sources? Can you please provide direct links/URLs as well? If this has been going on since 2018, then perhaps the article just needs to be improved? I'm not familiar with the South American region, so I can't comment on the topic's notability. However, from the article, it seems ok. It would also be helpful if anything in Spanish here such as words to refer to the article's title is translated into English for editors who don't speak Spanish. Fork99 (talk) 11:09, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

::{{ping|Fork99}} Academics and news outlets don't really use the term of "security crisis", which is part of my rationale for the nomination. References here and articles elsewhere refer to the events as prison riots and gang conflicts, which fall under the scope of Crime in Ecuador or another potential article, such as Prision riots in Ecuador. --NoonIcarus (talk) 13:21, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

  • Oppose Ecuadorian security situation and Ecuadorian security crisis are some of the most searched terms in Internet searches regarding Ecuador, and this is a perfectly valid article. I would suggest adding the years to the title (2018-2023). Abcmaxx (talk) 14:23, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

::I believe you need to be more specific. In my case, Google turns over 888,000 results for "Ecuadorian security crisis", contrasted with 3,870,000 for "Gang violence in Ecuador", 4,430,000 for "Prison riots in Ecuador" and 53,700,000 for "Crime in Ecuador". Please also be mindful of the content at WP:GOOGLETEST, as the main issue I'm commenting on is WP:SYNTH. --NoonIcarus (talk) 13:24, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

  • Oppose the situation in Ecuador is currently one of the worst security crises in the world. The prison riots have been increasing and several events are intertwined with the crisis, not to mention the high rise in crime and violence within the country. Mainly this is a clear spillover of situations in Colombia and Peru with their conflicts and narcoterrorism problems that have spilled into Ecuador.Joaquinazo (talk) 19:41, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

::You have to check that assertion. [https://www.statista.com/statistics/947781/homicide-rates-latin-america-caribbean-country/ Just in the region, in 2022], Ecuador's homicide rate was surpassed by Jamaica, Venezuela, Trinidad and Tobago, Honduras and Colombia (sometimes twice), and that's without including gang violence in countries such as Mexico and El Salvador or war zones. Regardless, the issue remains that the article includes personal interpretation and original research: the article doesn't demonstrate that all of these riots are directly linked to Jorge Luis Zambrano's death (whose date was arbitrarily chosen as the start of the crisis), or prove the relation with the Colombian or Peruvian conflicts. More importantly, there's a lack of consensus to call the situation a "security crisis". --NoonIcarus (talk) 13:44, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

:::The spanish article proves it, as well as several other sources within this article. Drug dealers have been bypassing several countries and laws by going into Ecuador from Colombia, plus the increase in gang violence is unprecedented unlike Honduras, which has a high history of gang violence, Venezuela (which is almost a failed state), Colombia (suffers from internal conflict), Jamaica (who suffers from a longstanding feud). Mexico and Peru (overlapping conflict) both have suffered deeply for years now and El Salvador is now one of the most peaceful countries after Bukele pacified the country. The Ecuadorian public is also in agreement that there is a security crisis caused by failed government polices within, and the crisis is seen in the media. There can't be denial for such a thing that not only has seen an escalating level of violence but has become a point of contention within elections and has seen several politicians murdered. Joaquinazo (talk) 22:42, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

::::Other topics are more suitable in that case, such as Drug trafficking in Ecuador or Gang violence in Ecuador. --NoonIcarus (talk) 10:04, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

:::::So redirect you mean?Joaquinazo (talk) 14:41, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

::::::Merge, redirect, or move. The problem is that there currently is original research in the article that needs to be addressed. --NoonIcarus (talk) 22:54, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Relisting comment: If the nominator wished for a rename, it shouldn't have been brought to AFD and you could have pursued a Merger without a trip here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:18, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

:Comment: If the discussion is relisted to move I support something like Gang Violence in Ecuador or 2021-present Gang Violence in Ecuador. Either seems pretty good to me, because either way there is no denying that such a rise in crime is causing a security crisis within. Joaquinazo (talk) 23:24, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

::Joaquinazo, before a page move can be considered, there has to be a consensus to Keep this article. That's what a closer is looking for when they bring this discussion to an end. Liz Read! Talk! 00:00, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

  • Delete per WP:TNT and WP:SYNTH, while Gang violence in Ecuador would be a notable topic this article is literally just a timeline stringing together completely unrelated topics and declaring them part of a single topic in an inappropriate way. Deleting it and starting over would be easier than attempting to wrangle this content into a proper article. Devonian Wombat (talk) 00:04, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
  • Oppose If anything, the primary complaints filed against the article is its title and not really that of the article's actual contents. Given the ample amount of references used including some outright using the term "security crisis", the worst I'd go for is a article title change to something such as for example, Ecuadorian security crisis (2018-2023). SuperSkaterDude45 (talk) 17:39, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
  • Merge the prose to Crime in Ecuador. This is not an independently notable topic, but it is part of the subject of crime in Ecuador. Delete the timeline, which is where much of the synth issues come from. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 18:12, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:09, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.