Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Erin Abrahamson

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Abrahamson is a bit trickier than some beauty contestants. She is currently Mrs. New Jersey AMerica, so this adds a second title to her Miss New Jersey USA back in 2007. I do not think this second title is enough to put her past the notability guidelines. However I think it is not as slam dunk a case, and so will bring it to AfD. John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:49, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

• Comment This article was previously discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Julianna White which resulted in keep for all articles. That was back in 2010, and basically said that if other state winners of Miss USA were notable, so were the ones from New Jersey. The more recent consensus seems to be that no Miss USA state winners are notable for winning Miss USA in their state.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:54, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
• Comment You've deleted/redirected plenty of double titleholders (Miss Teen USA & Miss USA) in the past week or so so I'm wondering why you view this one differently? PageantUpdater (talk) 12:43, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
• Well, she is the first I've come across who was Mrs. something for any state. Plus, she was also Miss Teen something New Jersey as well, so technically she is a triple title holder. I am not really convinced, but I try to avoid acting too unilaterally. Personally I also think that the people who won a title and also were contestants in some season of survivor are not notable, but I have been waiting for definite clear consensus on beauty pageant contestants to develop before acting more broadly in nominating.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:20, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
• Comment -- what the heck is Mrs. New Jersey America 2015? Are there separate pageants for married women?? K.e.coffman (talk) 04:49, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
• Comment Yes, there is a Mrs. America. You can't be married in the other ones (though I wonder what would happen if someone sued...) My question is if someone can be notable only for winning lots of pageants? Montanabw^(talk) 07:44, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
• As I understand, no award or a SNG would trump GNG -- significant coverage in reliable sources. So if the recipient wins several pageants, if the coverage does not exist, the article can and should be deleted. K.e.coffman (talk) 08:07, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 16:32, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fashion-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 16:32, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of New Jersey-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 16:32, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

• If found to not be independently notable, redirect to Miss New Jersey USA as a valid search term, and the subject is mentioned there. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 16:34, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 16:36, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

• Comment There are people who have resigned from Miss America USA titles to get married. Since the Us military academies do not let students get married, I am not sure how the less governmental and less a lot of other things pageants would be another issue. There are also upper age limits for Miss America and Miss USA (I think Miss USA it is 25, but I could be wrong, and I think it changes from time to time). There are 14 national US pageants in the US listed on the list List of beauty pageants and Mrs. America is not one of them. There is also a Mrs. Universe pageant, which is meant to be international in scope. Among the qualifying guidelines, the contestants must be between the ages of 25 and 45 (I am not sure if that is inclusive or exclusive), and they must "have a family and career". It appears they do not actually have to be married. At first Miss America was much more focused on the bathing suit aspect, and it was not until after 1933 that clear age guidelines were put in place. The guidelines are ages 18-26. Amanda Longacre was stripped of her title as Miss Delaware in 2014, and she sued. The article on her explains the criteria, such as being a US citizen and being under age 25 and over age 16. There is no indication of the outcome of Longacre's suit.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:25, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
• Keep for now. Discussion about notability guidelines has already started on the Talk page for the Beauty Pageant project. No harm will be done by closing this nomination as "keep" and letting the project-level discussion take its course. NewYorkActuary (talk) 05:08, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

• Delete and then Redirect as we are taling this too seriously, there's nothing for sny independent notability therefore there's nothing convincing as a whole. SwisterTwister talk 02:02, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
• Delete and then redirect to Miss New Jersey USA. The discussion that has started has largely confirmed me experience with the articles on pageant winners, finding them to be WP:PSEUDO biographies on individuals only notable for WP:BIO1E. Thus delete & redirect is an appropriate action in this case. K.e.coffman (talk) 02:05, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Beauty Pageants-related deletion discussions. PageantUpdater (talk) 00:28, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

• Comment: the discussion on pageant winners' notability is taking place: here, with participants variously advocating that (1) state level winners are not presumed notable, (2) state-level winners are not presumed non-notable; and (2) a special guideline is unnecessary, and that GNG should be used. There is no indication that state-level winners would be presumed notable for the win alone. Thus "keep for now" comment is not a valid argument in this discussion. K.e.coffman (talk) 04:04, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

• Delete per K.e.coffman's comments. This individual is not notable on her own. TonyBallioni (talk) 15:05, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.