Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Femininomenon

{{AFD help}}

:{{la|1=Femininomenon}} – (View AfDView log | edits since nomination)

:({{Find sources AFD|title=Femininomenon}})

Fails WP:NSONG (Neon piece appears to come from a "music discovery platform" with no stated editorial standards or policy and a "submit your music below" link in their Instagram bio); should be redirected to its album. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 23:46, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 23:46, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

• Strong Keep Per WP:BEFORE and WP:NSONG. Flip^andFlopped ツ 06:14, 5 April 2025 (UTC) {{Collapse|1=The nominator focuses only on the Neon piece, but a few minutes of googling the song will show pretty clearly a whole slew of subsequent substantive coverage ranging from Kamala Harris using it as a campaign song to other reliable sources using it generally as a stand-in slang term: i.e. "Femininomenon" as a sort of stand-in term for "women killing the game and doing it in a feminine kind of way", with reference to the song as the origin of the term. The article should probably be expanded with a section which explains how the song title was picked up and became used as a stand-alone slang term, but the substantive coverage is there - probably, readers will look up this phrase after seeing reliable sources borrow from Chappell and use it in their article titles and headlines even in discussions about other artists, politics, or fashion news. See for example [https://www.dazeddigital.com/music/article/65672/1/2024-was-the-year-of-the-pop-femomenon-charli-xcx-sabrina-carpenter-chappell It’s a femininomenon! How Chappell Roan slow-burned her way to stardom Dazed Digital], [https://www.vanityfair.com/news/story/the-femininomenon-decoding-feminine-energy-in-the-trump-era Vanity Fair (referencing the song in Trump coverage)], [https://www.google.com/search?q=femininomenon&sca_esv=2b989cd38cfe142e&rlz=1C5CHFA_enCA813CA814&tbm=nws&sxsrf=AHTn8zpb4UrMVtYRvIPVK8OOQypsl1fl9A:1743825057632&ei=oajwZ_-qJqX9ptQPt5D7qA0&start=30&sa=N&ved=2ahUKEwi___DI_r-MAxWlvokEHTfIHtU4FBDy0wN6BAgEEAk&biw= Harper's Bazaar (referencing it in fashion news coverage)] [https://deadline.com/video/super-bowl-trailer-m3gan-2-0/ Deadline], [https://carolinianuncg.com/2025/03/04/chappell-roan-a-femininomenon-in-her-own-right/ Carolinian Magazine], [https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/us-news/kamala-harris-embraces-brat-theme-for-her-campaign-heres-how-she-became-part-of-charli-xcxs-viral-summer-phenomenon-101721720607910.html Hindustan Times] . There's also the separate substantive coverage flowing from when Kamala Harris tweeted a meme about the song, overlaying images of herself with the caption "what we really need is a Femininomenon" and the song in the background: see substantive discussion of the song in [https://www.vanityfair.com/style/story/kamala-harris-chappell-roan-femininomenon Vanity Fair], [https://www.silive.com/politics/2024/07/kamala-harris-uses-this-pop-stars-song-to-boost-campaign-in-viral-tik-tok.html SILive, "Kamala Harris uses this pop stars song to boost campaign in a viral Tiktok"], [https://www.billboard.com/culture/politics/kamala-harris-campaign-chappell-roan-campaign-video-1235737353/ Billboard], and there are many more examples as well. Strong keep IMHO. Flip^andFlopped ツ 03:57, 5 April 2025 (UTC)
• :Thanks for these! The DAZED source makes no mention of the song; the first Vanity Fair source makes no mention of the song; the Harper's Bazaar source makes no mention of the song; the Deadline source mentions the song as the soundtrack of a trailer, but it's really one small mention in a small piece that's about something else; the Carolinan Magazine piece makes one tiny mention of the song; Hindustan Times is a poor source; the second Vanity Fair source makes a trivial mention of the song; the SI Live source is very trivial; and the Billboard piece only mentions that a video Kamala Harris made was set to/referenced the lyrics of the song. So, of sources that actually mention this song, there's no actual in-depth coverage of the song. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 04:11, 5 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::As I said above, all of the linked sources are using the song name "Femininomenon" in the article title, {{green|using it generally as a stand-in slang term: i.e. "Femininomenon" as a sort of stand-in term for "women killing the game and doing it in a feminine kind of way" [...] The article should probably be expanded with a section which explains how the song title was picked up and became used as a stand-alone slang term, but the substantive coverage is there - probably, readers will look up this phrase after seeing reliable sources borrow from Chappell and use it in their article titles and headlines even in discussions about other artists, politics, or fashion news}}. My argument is that the song is being widely used as a slang term, this is a unique additional source of notability which falls outside of WP:NSONG but still is within the spirit of WP:GNG. There's no need to be snippy and try to "gotcha" me - obviously, I know that an article about Trump which uses the song in its title is not discussing the song in depth, but it is referencing the song.
• ::In addition, in my view, if an article is written about the song being used by a famous politician, that is substantive coverage. There's no requirement in WP:NSONG that the article about the song needs to be soul-searching or doing in depth-lyric analysis as opposed to it being subsequent coverage about the song being used in something like a commercial, advertisement, or campaign. Three articles about Harris using it is enough to pass WP:NSONG even without the Neon piece. Flip^andFlopped ツ 04:30, 5 April 2025 (UTC)
• :::No, interpreting the usage of a term in a source that makes no mention to a song from which the term may have originated as coverage of the song is original research. Sources discussing the emergence of the term from the song would be significant. I'm not gotcha-ing you; I am responding to the sources you raised.
  I disagree that "Kamala Harris made a TikTok; it's set to this song" is substantive coverage of the song. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 04:34, 5 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::::Alright, that's fine then, we just have diverging opinions. The "Thanks for these!" is what raised my eyebrow, but I will defer to WP:AGF and apologize if that was just me misreading your tone.
• ::::I disagree that it is original research - something which is self-evident and just objectively true at face level does not require original research. To analogize, it's like if an article title used "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" in the song title, and then one responds by saying, "well, we don't know that the title is a reference to the song from Mary Poppins because the article does not specifically discuss Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious later on in the article. It might be a reference to something else". It is a highly unique phrase which only has one possible origin, and many of the articles I linked to connect to Chappell later on in the article. Flip^andFlopped ツ 04:39, 5 April 2025 (UTC)
• :::::No, because there are plenty of sources saying "Supercaliwhatever I'm not gonna spell this" came from a song in Mary Poppins—and we wouldn't need to rely on unrelated, unattributed uses of the term to float the notability of the song. This is more like tracing the origin of a slang term to a song, with no secondary source discussing the emergence of said slang term from said song, and arguing that all subsequent uses of that term count as significant coverage of the song to which the term can be attributed. If a source doesn't breathe a word about a topic, that source cannot be used to support that topic's notability, unpublished etymology aside. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 04:47, 5 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::::::For instance: Lil Flip, I'm pretty sure (I know as well as we know Chappell Roan invented "femininomenon"), originated the term "flossin" in one of his songs. It's not a notable song. I cannot look for sources that employ that term, without even casting a glance back at its origin, to support the notability of Lil' Flip's song. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 04:50, 5 April 2025 (UTC)
• :::::::I just think it's an unreasonable stretch and an impossibly high bar to require an etymological study in order to say that the term "Femininomenon" is a reference to the song "Femininomenon" by Chappell Roan. But, we can agree to disagree so as not to devolve into WP:BLUDGEON territory. "Flossin'" is a far less unique term which was, you know, an English word without the letter g at the end. It seems patently a stretch to me to compare that to "Femininomenon", a unique phrase.
• :::::::Also, for the sake of the record, there is also another [https://www.grammy.com/news/chappell-roan-big-year-interview-coachella-performance Grammys] source which both references the article in the title and discusses her performing it. Flip^andFlopped ツ 04:55, 5 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::::::::We don't figure out the truth here; we follow reliable sources. A source saying a slang term came from the song would be great. Evidence as-yet-ignored by reliable sources for the clear emergence of a slang term from the song is not coverage of the song. That Grammys source is also not about the song—it's just a passing mention. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 05:13, 5 April 2025 (UTC)
• :::::::::That's a hard standard to meet, because again, to me, it seems fairly self-evident - so nobody would ever feel the need to publish a paper saying it. Anyway, I was going to stop replying, but I couldn't help myself from doing a google search for "femininomenon"+"term", and I found this: there's a Her Campus article which says {{green|"Chappell has inspired a wave known as a “Femininomenon", a term that has become popular thanks to the first track on her album with the same title. In an interview with Capital Buzz, the artist defined the term saying that “it was about like how it’s a phenomenon if like sleeping with a man is better than sleeping with a girl. So I was like, ‘It’s a phenomenon, but it’s also feminine.}} I think that source together with the application examples (Vanity Fair, Harper's, etc) is enough to add it being used as a slang phrase into the article, which I'll work on tomorrow. Flip^andFlopped ツ 05:58, 5 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::::::::::Now we're going outside the issue of notability, but I'd revert your additions of sources which make no mention of the song, because that would be quite clear original research. Thanks for finding the sources that you found and the improvements you've made, though—I am now convinced of this song's notability, and withdraw my nomination. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 06:15, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

|2=Extensive debate between {{u|Flipandflopped}} and {{u|Zanahary}} on whether Kamala Harris Tiktoks + Use as slang term passes WP:GNG|padding=20px}}

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.