Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gabriel Baur

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:{{la|Gabriel Baur}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [https://tools.wmflabs.org/jackbot/snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Gabriel_Baur Stats])

:({{Find sources AFD|Gabriel Baur}})

Delete, may be notable butnothing here actually shows she is. Promotion is evident if an editor searches the history of the account who created it. Wikipedia is not a Webhost Hell in a Bucket (talk) 16:48, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 16:48, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

• Hell in a Bucket, the creator has indicated (or tried) the COI on their user page, User:2020sandhu. They also created Draft:Venus boyz--also poorly formatted and full of promotional language and links. But the topics may well be notable. The only film expert I know is User:MichaelQSchmidt, but I don't know how active they are these days. Drmies (talk) 17:17, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

:*User:Drmies I missed that. I'm open to anything here so if they are and I was too hasty feel free to close, check this out first though https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Venus_boyz&action=history. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 17:21, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

::{{u|Drmies}} I feel that it's worth noting that they're still skirting policy as they clearly indicate they are working for clients, so imo a COI disclosure isn't sufficient under WP:PAID policy but I guess that's a discussion for elsewhere. Praxidicae (talk) 17:43, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

:::Oh, {{U|Praxidicae}}, I'm not saying they did it right. The draft shows that they are a novice and should have spent a bunch more time practicing before they got to work publicizing their client. Having said that, I do think that the Venus Boyz thing is notable, but I do not have the time right now to really argue that case, and I don't know how much of a bearing it will have on this article. You'd hope that at some point User:2020sandhu starts noticing all these notifications and realizes this is a collaborative project. Drmies (talk) 18:11, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 17:41, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

• Delete not enough sources to show notability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:47, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
• Keep--I'm going out on a limb, a bit, after seeing a few hits in JSTOR (for Draft Boyz, mostly), and a couple significant ones via Google Books--[https://books.google.com/books?id=HWUEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA55 this (ha, a very not so good review of the film], [https://books.google.com/books?id=_rELBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA168 significant and lengthy discussion in this], and [https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09589231003695880?journalCode=cjgs20 this article]. Again, I wish I had time right now to improve the article--but the coverage is there. John Pack Lambert, please look at it again, and maybe you can spend a few minutes improving the article--thanks. Drmies (talk) 18:16, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
• The conflict of interest behind the creation tells me we should expunge this article on those grounds as well. Wikipedia is not supposed to be a platform for promotion, and so we need to proactively exclude promotional creations.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:42, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
• {{u|Drmies}} I'm not sure how your second source there helps establish anything. It's a self-published book of OR from a predatory publisher. Praxidicae (talk) 19:46, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
• Like I indicated, I did it quickly and didn't look at the publisher. Cambridge is a fishy outlet, that's true, and I don't see anything acceptable cited on those pages. John Pack Lambert, tell me something I don't know--I thought I could actually get you to look at something, but I was wrong. Drmies (talk) 01:05, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
• [https://books.google.com/books?id=z-14TikSYwgC&pg=PA129 Indiana UP], [https://books.google.com/books?id=iC3KDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA92 Palgrave/McMillan], [https://books.google.com/books?id=o1HgCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA88 U of Illinois P]. Drmies (talk) 01:14, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
• All this is making me think that Venus Boyz is notable, but the director not really--a paragraph in the article on the film is maybe all we should have. I checked for Cada día historia and Nordland, but there's not much there. Drmies (talk) 01:22, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
• KEEP - as it is a well known director whose films won many awards. Also Gabriel Baur is strongly engaged in gender equality within the film industry and therefore part and founder of different associations such as SWAN (Swiss Woman Audiovisual Network). Additionally Venus Boyz is a very notable feature film.--Elena Patrise (talk) 12:09, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
• {{U|Elena Patrise}}, you will have to come with better arguments than "because I say so". Please provide reliable, secondary sources; thank you. Drmies (talk) 00:26, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
• {{U|Drmies}} sure, therefore I add sources and references to the article for example the [https://mubi.com/films/venus-boyz/awards Awards for Venus Boyz] --Elena Patrise (talk) 09:58, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
• Keep. Nominator (and the above delete !voter) apparently failed to do WP:BEFORE. In addition to having won 3 film awards and been nominated for 2 others, I see abundant coverage in [https://www.google.com/search?tbs=bks:1&q=%22Gabriel+Baur%22+-wikipedia Books], [https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%22Gabriel+Baur%22 Scholar], [https://www.google.com/search?tbm=nws&q=%22Gabriel+Baur%22+-wikipedia News], and a number of results in [https://cse.google.com/cse?hl=en&cx=007734830908295939403:galkqgoksq0&cof=FORID:13%3BAH:left%3BCX:Wikipedia%2520Reference%2520Search&q=%22Gabriel+Baur%22 WP refs] and [https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=010426977372765398405:3xxsh-e1cp8&hl=en Reliable Source Search Engine] (sample: [https://variety.com/2002/film/reviews/venus-boyz-1200549002/]), all in multiple languages. If COI is an issue, do the appropriate talkpage (or article page if truly necessary) tagging; AfD is not cleanup. -- Softlavender (talk) 12:11, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

:Edited to add: There's additional coverage when you use their alternate name, "Gabrielle Baur": [https://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&tbm=bks&sxsrf=ACYBGNSR8YmFCTzl5A8HFofjw8on5CUgHg%3A1580904772569&ei=RLE6XravIqWt0PEP9J-i0A8&q=%22Gabrielle+Baur%22+-wikipedia&oq=%22Gabrielle+Baur%22+-wikipedia&gs_l=psy-ab.3...29396.29396.0.30915.1.1.0.0.0.0.115.115.0j1.1.0....0...1c.2.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.Q1S6O3-J3TI Books], [https://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&tbm=nws&sxsrf=ACYBGNSfEA8PlLe6Kd1vEOdfD48ywHSm7g%3A1580904774871&ei=RrE6XuDrNNHj9AORnavADA&q=%22Gabrielle+Baur%22+-wikipedia&oq=%22Gabrielle+Baur%22+-wikipedia&gs_l=psy-ab.3...47101.47101.0.48472.1.1.0.0.0.0.129.129.0j1.1.0....0...1c.2.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.fJhWpP73KLk News], [https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=%22Gabrielle+Baur%22&btnG= Scholar], [https://cse.google.com/cse?hl=en&cx=007734830908295939403:galkqgoksq0&cof=FORID:13%3BAH:left%3BCX:Wikipedia%2520Reference%2520Search&q=%22Gabriel+Baur%22 WP refs], [https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=010426977372765398405:3xxsh-e1cp8&hl=en Reliable Source Search Engine]. -- Softlavender (talk) 12:20, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

::WP:BEFORE goes out the window when promotion is occurring, at least for me. Blowing it up and restarting is the best option for a pile of advertising or promotion. Sorry you disagree but I'd nominate again in a second if I saw the same thing occurring. Policy hand wringing doesn't improve the pedia when stuff needs to be swept out. Nothing personal on your opinion just an explanation of mine. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 15:16, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

:::Then you are operating incorrectly. Notability applies to ALL articles and ALL subjects, whether or not there is promotionalism or promotional language in an article. AfD is not cleanup. And any COI concerns belong at WP:COIN, the editor's talkpage, and possibly the talkpage of the article (if tagging). Softlavender (talk) 00:22, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

• Keep Definitely seems like there is enough to meet GNG. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 15:32, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.