Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Glen Gilmore

:{{la|Glen Gilmore}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [https://tools.wmflabs.org/jackbot/snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Glen_Gilmore Stats])

:({{Find sources AFD|Glen Gilmore}})

does not meet notability for WP:POLITICIAN or WP:ACADEMIC. Only non-local coverage is a short Time Magazine article about how he sent out a police car to get medication after the 2001 anthrax attack, certainly admirable, but his role in the event was small. Rusf10 (talk) 01:35, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

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• Certainly a man of many great contributions, however, apart from WP:GNG, this article looks very much like a LinkedIn page instead of an encyclopaedia to me. Hence, I am in favour of deletion. Ernestchuajiasheng (talk) 04:31, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

• Strong delete for too long we have let articles on mayors of extremely minor places in New Jersey stand.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:35, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

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• Comment  The "extremely minor" township has population 88,000, and is the 9th largest municipality in New Jersey.  See List of municipalities in New Jersey.  The "small" Time Magazine article is behind a paywall, and the "small" role is cited, in the first Ghit on a Google Books search using [Glen Gilmore Hamilton], as an example of leadership during bioterror crisis.  Unscintillating (talk) 07:32, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
• Comment  Note that there are no editors here who claim that the topic fails GNG.  Unscintillating (talk) 07:32, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
• Comment  I found this snippet for the 2001 Time article, "In the reception area of Mayor Glen Gilmore's office in Hamilton Township, N.J., hangs a colorful poster from Mrs. Mehedin's first-grade class at Wilson Elementary. It shows 13 hand-colored "awards," each thanking Gilmore for providing the community of about 90,000 with parks, snowplows, garbage collection..."  Unscintillating (talk) 07:32, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
• Keep  Sources in all the usual places (article, web, news, books, scholar) satisfy GNG.  Unscintillating (talk) 07:32, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
• Delete -- does not meet WP:NPOL and significant RS coverage not found. 88,000 is indeed a "minor township"; this is not a significant municipality. K.e.coffman (talk) 21:06, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

:*DGG mentioned just this week at DRV, "...the level (50,000) where we routinely include mayors".  Unscintillating (talk) 04:40, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

::*DGG is wrong about that being the accepted standard. There used to be a consensus that a population of 50K was an automatic in for a city's mayors, but that's since been deprecated — for a variety of reasons, it is now entirely possible for a city below 50K to have at least some of its mayors considered notable, and for a city well above 50K to have some or all of its mayors deemed not notable. A mayor's notability ultimately depends on the quality and volume of sourcing that can actually be shown to support a reasonably substantive article, not on the size of the city per se. Bearcat (talk) 19:30, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

:::*The preceding statement was recently modified to add claims that WP:N creates content requirements, even though the AfD edit notice here states that, "valid arguments citing relevant guidelines will be given more weight than unsupported statements", and the relevant guideline states, WP:N#Notability guidelines do not apply to content within an article.  Unscintillating (talk) 23:50, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

::::*You're interpreting that exactly bass ackward. I didn't say that notability guidelines apply to content within an article; I said (correctly) that the content of the article speaks toward whether notability has been established or not, in response to an inaccurate claim that a certain size of city confers an automatic inclusion freebie on its mayors. Which it doesn't: a mayor's notability is contingent on the depth of sourcing that can be provided, not on the number of people who happen to have him as their mayor. Bearcat (talk) 00:49, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

:::::*Here is the diff: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Glen_Gilmore&diff=next&oldid=819555900], and here is lemma of the insertion, "A mayor's notability ultimately depends on the quality and volume of sourcing that can actually be shown to support a reasonably substantive article..."  {{pb}}From the lede of WP:N,

Article and list topics must be notable, or "worthy of notice".

That's it, and there is nothing about "sourcing", "support", or "substantiveness".  And right there in WP:N#Notability guidelines do not apply to content within an article are the words "content policies", Wikilinked to :Category:Wikipedia content policies.  Our content policies, unlike WP:N, are policies.  Unscintillating (talk) 01:33, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

::::::*"Worthy of notice" is determined by sourcing. Not by anybody's personal opinions about what we should celebrate: by reliably sourcing that real attention has been paid to the subject in the real world. Bearcat (talk) 04:51, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions.  Unscintillating (talk) 00:22, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

• Keep The sources here about him and his political role meet the notability standard. There are plenty of reliable and verifiable sources aboyt Gilmore to be added and any cleanup should be handled via editing. Alansohn (talk) 20:33, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
• Strong delete - Clearly fails WP:POLITICIAN, which says regarding local officials: {{talkquote|A politician who has received "significant press coverage" has been written about, in depth, independently in multiple news feature articles, by journalists.}} I cannot find reliable sources with in depth coverage of Gilmore. The article's Trenton Times sources only announce Gilmore's candidacy or describe election outcomes, they are not in depth coverage of Gilmore himself. The PolitickerNJ source is literally just a statement that he was not running for office again. Several sources are just lists of mayors that joined an organization or attended an event (and even if those orgs/events are notable, notability is WP:NOTINHERITED). Being mayor of a town this size by itself is far too WP:RUNOFTHEMILL. Without WP:LASTING in depth coverage of him, this local politician fails WP:GNG and we shouldn't have a WP:BLP on him. Shelbystripes (talk) 18:28, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
• Comment  Here are five citations available from Google books with a search on ["Glen Gilmore" hamilton]:

::* {{cite book

| author = Laura H. Kahn

| title = Who's in Charge?: Leadership During Epidemics, Bioterror, Attacks, and Other Public Health Crises

| url = https://books.google.com/books?id=K3M6uUPOhQAC&pg=PA65

| year = 2009

| publisher = ABC-CLIO

| isbn = 978-0-275-99485-3

| pages = 65–

| quote = The Department of Health focused on the state, and Glen Gilmore [mayor of Hamilton], the hospital and town. It had to be coordinated. Because [Glen and I] were on a first-name basis, we acted as one unit, and the community benefited. We couldn't get antibiotics from the CDC. We went to our supplier and asked if they would procure the antibiotics at the hospital's expense.

| accessdate = 2018-01-07

}}

::* {{cite book

| author = William E. Schluter

| title = Soft Corruption: How Unethical Conduct Undermines Good Government and What To Do About It

| url = https://books.google.com/books?id=l7KrDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA25

| date = 2017-02-24

| publisher = Rutgers University Press

| isbn = 978-0-8135-8619-9

| pages = 25–

| quote = ...Glen Gilmore, who was running for reelection as mayor of Hamilton Township. Gilmore won the election. When the Times of Trenton broke the story about this parade of contributions, representatives of 's business interests and the chair of the Mercer Democratic organization—who also served as Gilmore's chief of staff...

| accessdate = 2018-01-07

}}

::* {{cite book

| author1 = Leonard A. Cole

| author2 = Nancy D. Connell

| title = Local Planning for Terror and Disaster: From Bioterrorism to Earthquakes

| url = https://books.google.com/books?id=JHioqLlcZY0C&pg=PT53

| date = 2012-08-06

| publisher = John Wiley & Sons

| isbn = 978-1-118-39775-6

| pages = 53–

| quote = Hamilton Mayor Glen Gilmore sought help from , the chief administrator of Hamilton's Robert Wood Johnson University Hospital. She ordered 18,000 pills from a pharmaceutical facility in southern New Jersey. The mayor sent a police car to pick them up and deliver them to the hospital, which served as an ad hoc public health facility for the postal workers...

| accessdate = 2018-01-07

}}

::* {{cite book

| author1 = Arnold M. Howitt

| author2 = Herman B. Leonard

| title = Managing Crises: Responses to Large-Scale Emergencies

| url = https://books.google.com/books?id=-ApEDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA346

| date = 2009-02-11

| publisher = SAGE Publications

| isbn = 978-1-4522-8602-0

| pages = 346–

| quote = ...to provide the medication and suggested that Hamilton workers see their private physicians for Cipro prescriptions. Outraged by the state's response, Hamilton Mayor Glen Gilmore obtained a supply of the antibiotic, which a local hospital distributed free to postal workers.

| accessdate = 2018-01-07

}}

::* {{cite book

| title = Health affairs

| url = https://books.google.com/books?id=YuVPAQAAIAAJ

| year = 2003

| quote = Example 3 (absent physician leadership): 2001 anthrax attacks in Mercer County, New Jersey. Mercer County includes the state capital and is densely populated, with more than 350,000 people. When anthrax contaminated the Hamilton Township postal facility in Mercer County, no locally appointed physician leader was available to decide whether the 1,000 postal workers should be treated with antibiotics as a preventive measure. The Hamilton Township mayor, Glen Gilmore,...

| accessdate = 2018-01-07

}}

:Unscintillating (talk) 21:13, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

::Comment It is hard for me to see that these book mentions are more than trivial mentions. In "Managing Crises: Responses to Large-Scale Emergencies," the mention is no more than what is written above. --Enos733 (talk) 04:31, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

:::*As per WP:GNG, "Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material."  As long as you agree that one sentence can be significant coverage, I think the choice between trivial/significant here is that "Outraged by the state's response, Hamilton Mayor Glen Gilmore obtained a supply of the antibiotic" is in-depth significant.  This is a sentence that can be used to write encyclopedic material.  "Trivial" is something like a person's name in a phone book.  Unscintillating (talk) 11:30, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

::::To me, context matters and there is no black and white rule when a mention becomes significant. In general, I do not believe a one sentence mention is significant, especially as part of a book that is hundreds of pages long. --Enos733 (talk) 17:03, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

• Keep per NPOL(2).Icewhiz (talk) 07:01, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

{{clear}}

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