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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Greek war crimes

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. Liz Read! Talk! 20:41, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

=[[:Greek war crimes]]=

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:{{la|1=Greek war crimes}} – (View AfDView log | edits since nomination)

:({{Find sources AFD|title=Greek war crimes}})

the article serves no purpose. All sections already exist as articles. Furthermore, it is impossible to confirm the content of the sources. Delete D.S. Lioness (talk) 17:35, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

:Not sure if this necessitates a deletion of the article, but it needs a lot of work to bring it up to standards. Insanityclown1 (talk) 22:16, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

::...[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Baharatl%C4%B1Cheetos2.0%27%C4%B1n_devam%C4%B1#Proposed_deletion_of_Greek_war_crimes but you had already proposed for deletion] 🤔 D.S. Lioness (talk) 01:46, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

:::And the person who removed the tag had a point in my opinion. Not really taking a stand either way at this point, just offering my two cents. Insanityclown1 (talk) 14:34, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

:Delete, A clear case of POV and original research article. It is about the "war crimes of Greece" and half of it narrates events that occured before Greece as a country even existed. It arbitrarily lists some events as massacres of Greece against Turkey, despite not being known as such in historiography, as victims come from both sides. At parts it relies on sources that are either too old, primary, or unreliable nationalist Turkish sites. As the nom said, every notable event that is included in this article already has its own, well written/sourced article. Plus, there is already a list of massacres during the Greco-Turkish war, and also the article of Persecution of Muslims during the Ottoman contraction which already covers the same topics, but is more general. I don't think that to single one country out of all that can be warranted. This article seems to follow the example of German war crimes, Turkish war crimes, British war crimes, etc. however the creator forgot that these states have been major world empires that committed recognized genocides with deaths reaching up to millions; None of the events in which Greece participated was even close to having a similar impact, so as to warrant a separate, stand-alone article. Every country on earth has engaged in wars which had victims; if the threshold for creating such article was that low, then every country on earth would have a similar article. Piccco (talk) 22:27, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

::It is also worth noting that the creator (currently banned) has been caught multiple times promoting extreme fringe theories and Turkish nationalism in wikipedia, which, to me, further confirms the POV motives behind this article. Some editors were patient enough to compile a list of these incidents at ANI ("[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&oldid=1237068173#Persistent_ethno-nationalistic_disruption Persistent ethno-nationalistic disruption]"). The comments made at their [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Baharatl%C4%B1Cheetos2.0#Comments_by_other_users SPI] might provide further insight into their behavior. Piccco (talk) 16:29, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

  • Comment: I think it's a reasonable point that there are already individual articles for specific massacres, and things done during different wars; I am not sure if it's always the case that a specific article on a nation's war crimes should be devolved to sections of individual articles about wars. More crucially, how far back do we need to go with this? Do we need to include, like, the siege of Melos? That was grotesquely heinous, and obviously an affront to modern international law; the Geneva Convention, Rome Statute, et cetera. Now this is a very old example, but I think there is a point at which we are going too far for the contemporary notion of a "war crime" to be applied in a way that makes any sense, and some of the stuff in this article is from 1770, which seems pretty bizarre to me. jp×g🗯️ 11:37, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

:Delete While Greece did commit violations of war laws, much like the 100+ countries around the globe. And much like the war crimes all these countries have committed, Greece's war crimes are already covered in their relevant articles neutrally, with reliable sources that were peer-viewed and verified, unlike this article which is nominated for deletion, which uses sources the wouldn't be verified, do not meet Wikipedia's reliability criteria, and whose creation is disproportionate to the size and notability of the subject: the War Crime articles we maintain in Wikipedia are about notable cases in which global powers and major empires are involved: German war crimes, Turkish war crimes, British war crimes, Russian war crimes; Greece is neither, and its war crimes were already adequately covered in the relevant articles, and thus, does not justify singling it out of the hundreds of small countries and creating a standalone war crime article just for it. This goes against Wikipedia's common rationale. What the creator of the article did, also is to accuse the Greek state for war crimes which were committed when the Greek state didn't even exist. Or in cases where Greece's government wasn't even functioning at the time. This shows a blatant case of POV-pushing agenda by the article's creator to shed a negative light against a particular country. Furthermore, the way the article is structured, gives me the impression that the goal here isn't really to inform the readers about the subject in a neutral way but to prove a point which is commonly used in modern Turkish politics which are characterized by the tight control of the Turkish government over the country's media, rampant far-right nationalism and populism, Islamist rhetoric, and an anti-Greek sentiment. The creator's history log doesn't help in building faith about their attention to Wikipedia's guidelines which are important when tackling such serious topics in Wikipedia: Their user contribitions have worrisome signs of WP:POV and WP:OR edits that lack verification and which constitute source manipulations. To me it seems clear that the article should be deleted and a warning to be given to the creator for the violation of Wikipedia's core content policies, which are verifiability, no original research, and neutral point of view. edit: the creator just got blocked [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Baharatl%C4%B1Cheetos2.0%27%C4%B1n_devam%C4%B1&diff=prev&oldid=1237043535] indefinitely due to violating Wikipedia's rules, therefore my recommendation for throwing a warning at them, is redundant at this point as they have already been warned before. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk ✉ | contribs ✎) 14:28, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

  • Delete as SYNTH and CFORK of content already in other articles which is just clumsily copy pasted into this one. There is no coverage in historiography that treats these events in unified manner, so the article is basically an original research synthesis of disparate events that is not reflected in the literature. Khirurg (talk) 23:30, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
  • Delete as per comments of fellow editors above. Demetrios1993 (talk) 17:10, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

:Delete Article is incoherent, clumsy, and highly ultranationalistic. I agree with what was stated above. Blowwhite1 (talk) 20:43, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.