Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Islamic nationalism

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:{{la|Islamic nationalism}} – (View AfDView log)

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This article was a redirect for many years and the recent attempts to change the redirect target reveal it for what it is: a personal perspective on a grab-bag of very loosely related contemporary and historical movements. The equivalent articles in other languages are equally all over the place, full of entirely different material, mostly unsourced. There is a proper article to be written about the intersection of Islam and nationalism, but it is simply false to say that it is inherently right-wing, and even to extent that there is a sub topic of Islam and right wing nationalism, this definitely isn’t it. It’s not even at the level of a bad student essay. I think TNT is appropriate. Mccapra (talk) 18:27, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. Mccapra (talk) 18:27, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Islam-related deletion discussions. Mccapra (talk) 18:27, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

• Keep The current redirect to pan-Islamism is not correct because Islamic nationalism and pan-Islamism are two different concepts and therefore have little in common. Previously, the article was a [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Islamic_nationalism&diff=884729529&oldid=884724290 redirect to Muslim nationalism in South Asia], which is problematic because Islamic nationalism doesn't only covered South Asian part (moreover, this had created an [https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q41219&diff=1367655542&oldid=1345506769 absurd wikidata element where French, German and Turkish articles about Islamic nationalism where grouped with Hindi, Urdu, Bengali, Tamul and English articles about Muslim nationalism in South Asia]). In addition, the article in French is perhaps not written in a purely encyclopedic style but it has the advantage of being the best referenced (16 references, including books), but if you have a problem with that, it can be translated from the German or Turkish articles (more encyclopedic style but fewer - or none - references). There are articles about Christian nationalism and Hindu nationalism, there is therefore no reason why such an article does not exist for Islam. --Martopa (talk) 11:40, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

::I don’t think any redirect is actually useful as the article is based on such a confused concept. It’s all absurd. If there are valid articles about Hindu nationalism and Christian nationalism that’s because there are solid sources talking about a single identifiable and discussable phenomenon. That doesn’t mean we need to create articles on Buddhist nationalism, Shinto nationalism etc just to be even handed. I think there probably is a valid topic here, but this article just isn’t a credible attempt at it. Mccapra (talk) 21:08, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

:::It is interesting to note that there was a [https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discussion:Islamo-nationalisme/Suppression similar debate on the deletion of the article on French Wikipedia], and that despite the defaults pointed out by the supporters of the deletion (the same arguments as here), a majority (6 against 3) believes that there have been abundant secondary sources for 15 years and that the concept is used in political science. --Martopa (talk) 12:13, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

::::The fr.wiki discussion cites instances where the term is used. That the term is used is not in dispute. Whether the term is used to refer to a consistent body of ideas and philosophies is in dispute. The whole point is that different authors use the term to mean different things when discussing specific countries. Mccapra (talk) 12:43, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

• Delete , Per nom. a personal view that has been in redirect for a long time. Alex-h (talk) 11:53, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
• Keep This article is to be completed but seems relevant and sourced.--Manodestina (talk) 12:34, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

• Comment. The current article looks to be basically OR (and I've tagged it as such) but there do appear to be academic sources discussing Islamic nationalism as such, e.g. [https://brill.com/view/journals/wdi/56/1/article-p6_3.xml?language=de this journal article], and in particular contexts a chapter on "Egyptian Islamic nationalism" [https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Redefining_the_Egyptian_Nation_1930_1945/IVsoPRxuWOMC?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA79 here], [http://rizalls.lib.admu.edu.ph:8080/proquestfil/8200371.pdf a Duke PhD] on Islamic nationalism in the Philippines, plus some chapters discussing it in the Iranian context [https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/From_Persian_Empire_to_Islamic_Iran/D5HtAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22Islamic%20nationalism%22 here]. I note that there's also an existing Muslim nationalism in South Asia article. The problem is that the articles I linked are discussing different phenomena though so I'm not convinced that these amount to notability for it as a single topic. —Nizolan ^{(talk · c.)} 15:16, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

::I agree, I think that’s the key issue. The term is used to mean somewhat different things in different contexts so some kind of high level overview article may be possible, but it would be very different to this. Mccapra (talk) 16:48, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

• Delete Nizola has shown that there is no coherent topic to write about here, failing WP:SYNTH. The different concepts labeled as "Islamic nationalism", if notable, should have their own articles. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 18:59, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
• Delete as Nizola has shown that this is not a coherent topic and trying to make it one fails WP:SYNTH.VR _talk 04:07, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
• Delete move to draft, restore redirect The article itself looks really bad, it's poorly sourced and poorly written. I recommend moving this to a draft page if the user that wrote this is interested to fix and/or expand the article, and I recommend restoring the redirect until this gets fixed. Nizolan proved the point in some way or another so I agree with them, it fails WP:SYNTH. --Vacant0 (talk) 11:11, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
• Delete as WP:SYNTH and oppose draftify. Best to start completely over then try to salvage an article from a bad seed.4meter4 (talk) 23:06, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

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:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.