Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Javatari

:{{la|Javatari}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [http://toolserver.org/~snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Javatari Stats])

:({{Find sources|Javatari}})

Promotion for a non-notable "evolving" software project (aka, vaporware). damiens.rf 14:37, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

• Comment Hello. I don't know exactly how to contribute to this issue, but I don't think Javatari should be deleted. It is a fine Atari 2600 Emulator, it has an active webpage where the project is evolving, with visits and downloads everyday. Most important, it is a good alternative to Stella, because of its different user interface style and multiplayer mode, a feature that no other Atari 2600 emulator has. Its not vaporware by any means. I have seen people looking for "Atary 2600 Emulator" or "Multiplayer Atari 2600 Emulator", and this searches will bring people to Wikipedia, where they can learn about the existence of Javatari as a new alternative to Stella. Regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ppeccin (talk • contribs) 17:32, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

:*That's all well and good, I'm sure it's a brilliant project and wish you all success. But none of that matters for the purpose of deciding whether Wikipedia has an article about it. What's important is whether it has sufficiently reliable third-party sources. Can you provide any? Morwen - Talk 18:16, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

::*What would be considered a reliable source? Does discussion in forums count? Links in Atari/Emulation related sites? Sites using the Javatari Emulator for providing games (legally) online? Articles and discussion in Hacker News? If so yes, I can provide some refernces like these. Regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ppeccin (talk • contribs) 21:07, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

:::*Well, you could have a look at Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources. Basically, reportage (rather than incidental mentions) of it in respected publications. None of those seem to fit the bill, unfortunately. Morwen - Talk 22:35, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

::::*All right... That's a pity. An important part of the referrals I receive on the site are from people looking for Atari or Java based emulators, that find info on Wikipedia about them. Its a virtuous cycle, it shows people there are alternatives to the already "famous" one. If you think mine is not good enough to be here, I respect your opinion, but I disagree. I assure you it's not even close to "vaporware". There are several other emulators and software with articles on Wikipedia that are way less active than Javatari, are old, or have been abandoned years ago. Regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ppeccin (talk • contribs) 14:39, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

:::::*Well, Wikipedia isn't making any value judgement about the quality of anything when it decides to have an article about it or not - it's simply a matter of deciding whether we have enough reliable sources to write a good article. I don't know why you're making out they we're saying it's not "good enough". The original nominator didn't put the deletion very sensitively, it's true. If there are other articles that we also shouldn't have, then that's not an argument for keeping this one: we have to start somewhere. Morwen - Talk 12:32, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

{{outdent|5}}

• Yes, I understand that. I was saying "not good enough" in terms of reliability. The software was cited as possible "vaporware", which is not the case. Is it as famous as Stella? No it is not. But being not as famous and relatively newer than other options does not mean the information on the article is "unreliable". Everything said in the article is true and authentic. It even says its a new and evolving project, with a different approach for some of the features of an emulator. Today, there are 2 or 3 Atari 2600 Emulators active. Javatari is one of them. I find that this is very interesting information for people seeking knowledge about the subject. I really do not understand why the article and the information it carries deserve to be deleted. Regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.83.41.88 (talk) 17:19, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Games-related deletion discussions. — Frankie (talk) 15:55, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Software-related deletion discussions. — Frankie (talk) 15:55, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game-related deletion discussions ({{find video game sources short|Javatari}}). — Frankie (talk) 15:57, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

• Delete Vaporware is not itself criteria for deletion (Starcraft: Ghost is a FA), but this article lacks independent, reliable sources (WP:N). Wikipedia is an encyclopedia (not a catalog of everything) and articles must meet a notability threshold (WP:GNG) in order to be included. You may also be interested in the Video Games WikiProject's list of reliable sources: WP:VG/S. Problems of notability are generally worked out when submitting articles through a vetting process like WP:Articles for Creation. czar · · 19:50, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

• Delete - no coverage, so WP:GNG cannot be met.--E8 (talk) 18:18, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.