Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joe Iacone

:{{la|Joe Iacone}} – (View AfDView log)

:({{Find sources|Joe Iacone}})

Fails WP:ATH (never played a game in the NFL) and WP:GNG. The only references that I found pertaining to his "playing for the Eagles and Patriots" is in a speech at the Haverford School ([http://www.haverford.org/podium/default.aspx?t=204&tn=Lower+School+holds+closing+exercises+for+Class+of+2015&nid=439202&ptid=3466&sdb=False&pf=pgt&mode=0&vcm=False]). He fails GNG undoubtedly, as I could not find sufficient coverage of him anywhere. Eagles 24/7 (C) 05:24, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. —Eagles 24/7 (C) 17:41, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. —Eagles 24/7 (C) 17:43, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

• Keep. He was the greatest football player in West Chester State University history, setting the school's records for most rushing yards in a season (1,461 yards in 1962) and in a career (3,979 yards from 1960 to 1962). I've begun to improve the article, and there are a number of sources covering him, including The New York Times. Cbl62 (talk) 19:32, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

:*The references you have added are trivial and consist mainly of game stats. Every college football player receives similar coverage. Eagles 24/7 (C) 19:35, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

::: That's simply not so. He's probably the best player in the school's history. And one of the article from The New York Times devotes two full paragraphs to Iacone. Very, very few college football players get two paragraphs of coverage from the most important newspaper in the United States. Bear in mind, also, that access to newspapers from 1960-1962 is limited, so there is likely to be a whole lot more out there that is not freely accessible as the New York Times. Cbl62 (talk) 19:51, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

::::The best player for a program that is not even notable enough to have an article, mind you. Obviously we have different opinions regarding the coverage Iacone received, so it is moot to argue. Eagles 24/7 (C) 20:04, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

::::::Comment: No one has deemed West Chester Golden Rams football (presently a redirect) not to be notable. It just hasn't been created yet. There are many articles for sub-Division I teams, like the one West Chester's fellow PSAC member IUP Crimson Hawks football. Jweiss11 (talk) 21:29, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

::::: I've now added coverage of Iacone from Sports Illustrated as well. He actually passes both WP:GNG and WP:ATH based on his having received national media coverage in publications such as the New York Times, Sports Illustrated and Chicago Tribune. Cbl62 (talk) 20:18, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

::::::I still strongly disagree, as the newspapers you cite only discuss his game stats, with the exception of Sports Illustrated, which has three sentences devoted to him. Eagles 24/7 (C) 20:30, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

::::::: In addition to Sports Illustrated, there's [http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive/pdf?res=F10B17FB3959137B93CAA91789D95F468685F9 this] from the New York Times and [http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/baltsun/access/1743962732.html?FMT=CITE&FMTS=CITE:AI&type=historic&date=Nov+22%2C+1961&author=&pub=The+Sun+(1837-1985)&desc=West+Chester's+Iacone+Again+Named+All-East&pqatl=google this] from the Baltimore Sun. Cbl62 (talk) 21:50, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

::::::::I can't see them, but I can assume that the NYT article has a few sentences about Iacone in relation to the matchup with another school and the Sun article has a brief bio of Iacone with mostly stats mixed in. However, I am still unconvinced that he passes WP:GNG, as this is typical coverage of a college football player, Division II or Division I. Eagles 24/7 (C) 22:00, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

:{{outdent|7}} The [http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive/pdf?res=F0071EF8355912738DDDA00994D9415B818AF1D3 November 19, 1961 NY Times article] is 2 paragraphs as Cbl62 mentioned, but each paragraph is only one sentence, each basically stat lines. The [http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive/pdf?res=F10B17FB3959137B93CAA91789D95F468685F9 December 8, 1962 NY Times article] is a WP:Run-of-the-mill game preview article discussing the matchup between both teams. Four sentences are devoted to Iacone including 1) opponents general concern with Iacone 2) season stat line, 3) career stat line 4) his hopes to play professionally.—Bagumba (talk) 01:57, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

:: When I said above that "one of the article from The New York Times devotes two full paragraphs to Iacone," I was referring to [http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive/pdf?res=F10B17FB3959137B93CAA91789D95F468685F9 this], which is not two sentences. Cbl62 (talk) 22:19, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

::: OK , so you were referring to the 12-paragraph article that had two paragraphs of two sentences each on Iacone and not the other two-paragraph article of one sentence each. Anyways, no worries, it made me realize that newspapers typically have short paragraphs —Bagumba (talk) 22:57, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

:::: That's the one. ;) Cbl62 (talk) 23:32, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

• Keep per Cbl62. Jweiss11 (talk) 21:30, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
• Delete Does not pass WP:GNG with WP:ROUTINE and trivial coverage. The article may mention Sports Illustrated and The New York Times in its body, but the quotes are taken from coverage consisting of merely 3 or 4 sentences (as discussed above). Fails WP:NSPORTS. He did not play a game in the NFL. He also fails WP:NSPORTS#College athletes having never won a notable national award (All-America teams dont qualify), set any notable national records, or been inducted by any general Hall of Fames (high school does not count). Insufficient coverage make it impossible to write an substantive and objective article for a standalone article.—Bagumba (talk) 08:56, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

:: Check again. Additional sources located. He's been covered extensively in the national press, including the AP, UPI, Chicago Tribune, Stars and Stripes, The New York Times, and Sports Illustrated. He won the Division II rushing championship in 1960, was a two-time AP Little All-American, was named All-East, and set school and conference rushing and scoring records that remained intact for two to three decades. He easily satisfies both WP:GNG and the college athlete subcategory or WP:ATH based on national news coverage ("Gained national media attention as an individual"). Cbl62 (talk) 15:28, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

:::Keep Change from my previous !vote. He does not seem like typical AfDs that I do not support where there is some coverage to barely pass GNG, but a notable lead paragraph could never be written about the subject. Based on a combination of the new found sources and Cbl62's incredible writing in the article, Iacone's accomplishments seem worthy that he was not a WP:Run-of-the-mill college player. Even though he doesnt meet the letter of the law in NSPORTS, he has won numerous honors, set school records, and had second highest Div II rushing mark for a couple decades. I dont have access to the new sources, but trust they are accurate. Even if they are short, WP:BIO says "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability." This is the case here. —Bagumba (talk) 21:05, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

:::: Thanks for taking a second look and for the nice comment. I think this one was worth saving. Cbl62 (talk) 21:11, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

• Keep per Cbl62's research and improvements to the article. Strikehold (talk) 20:46, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
• Keep Loaded with references.--Paul McDonald (talk) 03:41, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
• Keep Tons of references included. Passes WP:GNG.--Giants27(T|C) 16:01, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
• Strong Keep Now well referenced and improved. I have tagged it for Rescue. --DThomsen8 (talk) 00:04, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
• Snowball keep after yeoman page rescue work by User:Cbl62 and others. No question with the diversity of RS applied, this subject meets GNG and NSPORTS, sources indicating a persistence toward a strong legacy. This one was definitely worth saving. Fine work. BusterD (talk) 12:35, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.