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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Johnny Ard

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. For a change WP:ATH isn't really the main issue here (though the subject appears to fail it). As pointed out, there isn't really enough substantial coverage to pass WP:BIO either. Black Kite 18:32, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

=[[Johnny Ard]]=

:{{la|Johnny Ard}} – (View AfDView log{{•}} {{plainlink|1=http://toolserver.org/~betacommand/cgi-bin/afdparser?afd={{urlencode:Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Johnny Ard}}|2=AfD statistics}})

:({{findsources|Johnny Ard}})

Contested Prod. Not notable per WP:ATHLETE GregJackP (talk) 00:46, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

  • Delete. I'm never sure what is meant in WP:ATHLETE by "fully professional level" but I don't personally consider the minor leagues "fully professional." Why not? Because most of the players have to make money outside of baseball in order to live. Though some high draft picks don't need to, the level itself isn't something I'd call "fully" professional. Maybe, "kinda" professional. Anyway, this person is totally unremarkable: a very short and undistinguished minor league baseball career without a single call-up to the bigs. I'm uncomfortable weighing in on Division D Bosnian soccer players (though often tempted), but I do know my baseball. -Quartermaster (talk) 01:28, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

:Additional comment - based on the link in the article to the [http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/A/johnny-ard.shtml baseballcube web site], he spent two years in single A, two years in AA, and pretty much washed out in less than a year at the AAA level (where he had a 3-5 record and a 5.78 ERA). -Quartermaster (talk) 01:36, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Well...


I think that he had a standout Minor League Career. He was a #1 Draft Pick, and could've made the bigs if he didn't have the injury.


But that's a "what if", so I don't know.


You can delete it, but it might make sense to keep it.

  • Keep - The question of whether minor leagues are "fully professional" has always been contentious, and I am in the "fully professional" camp. But there has always been a consensus that not all minor leaguers are notable, especially those that don't play a full season in AAA. Ard id not play a full season in AAA, but apparently played most of a season in AAA. But there are other indicators of his notability, and of the likelihood of there being additional reliable sources that covered Ard in the pre-Google era. He was a 1st round draft pick, #20 overall. Baseball America listed him as their #46 best prospect in baseball in 1990. And they listed him in their top 100 prospects again in 1991, this time at #77.[http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/top-100-prospects/all-time.html]. Rlendog (talk) 21:07, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

:Any improvement of the article vis a vis adding third party sources to bolster notability could easily sway me to recommend Keep. The minor league record, for me, just isn't enough. This isn't a "go to the mat" kind of thing for me, just chiming in. -Quartermaster (talk) 22:22, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Results of searching Lexis-Nexis Academic database: Searching all news sources for the last 40 years, I turned up a number of mentions of Johnny Ard. The only context was that he played at Manatee Jr. College, and was drafted as described. Lots of mentions in passing as part of larger minor league transactions (and lots of duplicates - e.g., AP articles all identical). Not a single one talks about Ard in any other context other than noting he was drafted, and he was in the minors (no specific games, no unusual feats, no championships, no no-hitters, nothing). My search went back to the late 1980's. -Quartermaster (talk) 15:36, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

:Delete in keeping with the results of Quartermaster's search, he's not notable. In WP:BASEBALL, we consider the majors to be the most "fully" professional level. Career minor leaguers shouldn't meet notability unless there's something specifically notable about them. --Muboshgu (talk) 15:13, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

  • Keep. Per Rlendog. Of course (IMHO) the baseball minor leagues are fully professional. The test of "let's see if they have to make money elsewhere to live" is a novel one, that I don't buy into.--Epeefleche (talk) 21:32, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
  • Delete but he had a decent Minor League career!!!1!1! (Emphasis mine.) Per precedent, career minor leaguers are not inherently notable. caknuck ° needs to be running more often 06:23, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
  • Delete If there is any doubt about the application or interpretation of a subguideline, like WP:ATH, we ought to defer to the overriding WP:BIO. The searches conducted above demonstrate that the subject has not received significant coverage in reliable sources. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:56, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.