Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Julia Lebedeva

{{AFD help}}

:{{la|1=Julia Lebedeva}} – (View AfDView log | edits since nomination)

:({{Find sources AFD|title=Julia Lebedeva}})

Fails WP:NSKATE. Fails WP:GNG. No evidence of notability. On-line searches yielded nothing. Bgsu98 (Talk) 21:46, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Women, Skating, Armenia, and Russia. Bgsu98 (Talk) 21:46, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Olympics-related deletion discussions. Let'srun (talk) 21:29, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
• Redirect to Armenia at the 2002 Winter Olympics: Both this and the corresponding Russian article are devoid of any type of secondary coverage. As such, the subject does not appear to meet the WP:GNG due to a lack of WP:SIGCOV. Redirect as a WP:ATD. Let'srun (talk) 21:36, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
• She was actually quite famous. But my brief search didn't come with anything. (Understandably, cause 20 years have passed.)
  I wouldn't delete articles like this. Cause you would need to find Russian and Armenian print papers from 97–02, they haven't been scanned for Google Books.
  I've looked her up, she currently coaches very small kids in Moscow. Her students are so small, none of them are in the news, sadly. --Moscow Connection (talk) 14:47, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
• Keep Bordrline notable Olympic sportsman. Independent coverage does exist, but difficult to find. --Altenmann >talk 16:32, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
• :Notable how? Finishing in 27th place out of 27 skaters? Bgsu98 (Talk) 16:39, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::That's why she dropped competitive sport, sad. Still borderline WP:GNG/WP:SIGCOV. --Altenmann >talk 17:03, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
• :::Is that "significant coverage" in the room with us now? Bgsu98 (Talk) 17:38, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::::As I can see, {{u|Altenmann}} found her entry on Sport-strana.ru, a Russian online sports encyclopedia. There's a detailed article.
  The Sport Strana encyclopedia may not seem well-designed (it is stuck somewhere in the 2000s), but it is being used in 590 Russian Wikipedia articles ([https://ru.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=sport-strana.ru&title=%D0%A1%D0%BB%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F%3A%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BA&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns0=1]). So it is definitely a serious, reliable website. And their article about Lebedeva is actually well-written and looks good. --Moscow Connection (talk) 18:00, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::She represented Armenia at the Olympics and the Europeans, basically being an "acting" Armenian champion. (I have no idea if actual Armenian national championships were held at that time. So I can't prove she was actually a champion and thus passes WP:NSKATE.)
  And she wasn't someone unknown even in Russia. She placed 6th at the Russian championships in the 1997/98 season and thus most probably qualified for the Russian national squad. Cause she represented Russia at the Golden Spin and Skate Israel early in the next season. --Moscow Connection (talk) 17:21, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
• Keep. All that said, I think she passes WP:NSKATE as a de facto Armenian champion. (At least de facto.)
  {{reply to|Altenmann}}. I was afraid to vote because of Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1176#User:Bgsu98 mass-nominating articles for deletion and violating WP:BEFORE. Where the emphasis of the discussion I started was shifted to attacking me. Since then, I've been avoiding AfD and decided to come here only because I know Lebedeva was famous enough. As were many other Russian skaters whose article were deleted during the past year. --Moscow Connection (talk) 17:21, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
• :A similar mop-up was earlier for footballers and ... pornstars. There was even a joke inforgaphics where, like, 55% of Wikipedia articles were pornstars, 25% pokemon :-). It is sad that now it seems to be 80% of Wikipedia edits is from wikignomes (that's what I see in my watchlist) rather than content creators. But there is a reasonable position that if a person is indeed notable to general public, not just to wikipedia lawyers, the bio will be recteated anyway ... or not. My personal approach is if I see some name mentioned an several wp articles, I write up a brief bio, such as Shulamit Volkov or Niyameddin Musayev or Bronislava Kerbelytė, to name a few of my articles no one cares about. --Altenmann >talk 18:01, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
• Comment Of course Bgsu98 comes down as a 25-pound hammer on all these articles, but in his defense I may say that a HUGE number of nanostubs were created by dumping various databases into wp, without real loving care of the subjects. I remember this happened to locations in Antarctica (it took lots of work to merge/redirect them into larger features) ; we are still struggling with GNIS dumps of locations which do not exist anywhere but in GNIS; I remember one guy ctearted several dozens 200-character articles on railway stations in several minutes, I guess in a rat race to be the one to create the 1,000,000th Wikipedia article. And so on. So I see nothing wrong in backfiring with massive AfD nominations. --Altenmann >talk 18:19, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
• :But these figure skater articles were not like that. Many were well-developed. There were several prominent editors who created such articles a few years ago. Maybe if these people were still active they would defend their creations.
  This is a lesson why you need to write articles for contemporary skaters now and not wait 20 years. Cause in 20 years most of the online sources won't exist anymore, and it will be impossible to prove the people were famous once. --Moscow Connection (talk) 18:33, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
• :I see that you have added sources to this article. This is the English-language Wikipedia, so sources in languages other than English must include 1) the title translated into English, and b) the language of the source. Bgsu98 (Talk) 22:51, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::"Must include". — That's not a requirement. --Moscow Connection (talk) 23:45, 3 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::@Bgsu98 what guideline is this based on? I don't see anything like that in WP:NONENG. Stockhausenfan (talk) 07:34, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
• :Even when those articles were improved (I improved some of the mass AfD summitted skating bio articles after submission and they were properly cited before the nomination) they still draw attention of the nominator for deletion due to the narrow view of what is considered "notable". That said I'm not sure how these deletions makes a better Wikipedia. The nominator's assertion "No evidence of notability. On-line searches yielded nothing." is inaccurate as sources have been added to the article that are appropriate and as a national champion she passes WP:NSKATE. Nayyn (talk) 19:19, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
• Redirect to Armenia at the 2002 Winter Olympics. Not much coverage to keep as stand alone article. Ramos1990 (talk)

:

::* Keep Seems she passes WP:NSKATE as a champion. Archives908 (talk) 17:04, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

::*:Champion of what?!? Bgsu98 (Talk) 17:53, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

• I am unhelpfully neutral on what to do with this article. On the one hand, we have a fairly credible NEXIST claim and sources have been added to the article since its nomination. On the other hand, I am not sure we met the requirement that {{tq|All sports biographies [...] must include at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject}} in WP:SPORTCRIT. Moscow Connection, can you please tell me what one source provides significant coverage of Lebedeva? I checked the a few at random and did not find any, aside from source 1 which I am not sure is reliable. Toadspike [Talk] 21:11, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
• The first one provides significant coverage.
  But I have just done another search, and I have found one short paragraph here:
  • "[https://www.sport-express.ru/figure-skating/reviews/figurnoe-katanie-redkie-arhivnye-snimki-rossiyskih-figuristov-s-sorevnovaniy-1996-goda-1759930/ Фигурное катание: редкие архивные снимки российских фигуристов с соревнований 1996 года]" — Sport Express, 1 March 2021
  Not much, but see for yourself what company she's got there. The article is dedicated to the top Russian skaters of the 1990s. I'm telling you, she is famous.
  I think, this one qualifies as a significant coverage. Considering that 25 years have passed and she is still remembered.
  I've also have just found this:
  • "[https://dzen.ru/a/ZNIP3IuelDR3HXaB Побег от конкуренции. Как сложились карьеры фигуристок, сменивших российский флаг?]" – Maxim Yagudin blog.
  It's a popular and reliable blog dedicated to figure skating. There's a big paragraph about her. See the "1999" section, it's dedicated to her. And again, look what company she's got.
  I think the article should definitely be kept. --Moscow Connection (talk) 22:20, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
• :"I'm telling you, she is famous." Yes, the "Trust me, bro" argument.
• :Blogs are not acceptable sources. Bgsu98 (Talk) 23:01, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
• There is no reason to doubt the reliability of the source. It is not crowd-sourced. It has an editorial oversight. --Altenmann >talk 22:24, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
• An outside note. I wanted to check Lebedeva's Russian Championship record. And I've noticed that many Russian Championships articles have been redirected. I wonder why people do things like this, for example: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2007_Russian_Figure_Skating_Championships&diff=prev&oldid=1267770312]. It's absolutely crazy to think that the 2007 Russian Championships didn't have any news coverage. Like, really, if you don't know anything about Russia and figure skating, don't touch such articles. Write about something you know. --Moscow Connection (talk) 22:57, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
• An inside noteback. IMO it is good thing that wikipedia does not have such articles. If someone wants to know results, then they better to go to official place rather than to wikipedia where nobody freaking cares and the table was vandalized 10 times with random names in it and a picture of penis on top (if you think I am joking, this actually happened a couple days ago somewhere else, fortunately someone noticed... er... next day). --Altenmann >talk 00:35, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

:

• I've found one more source:
  • "[https://sportrbc.ru/news/5754b1ab9a7947133b29707f Вон из дома. Все фигуристы, которые уезжали из России за границу]" — RBC Sport
  There are just several lines about Lebedeva, but she has her own section. And what's important, the article says that she "contributed to the formation of Victoria Sinitsina" ("приложила руку к становлению Виктории Синициной"). That's WP:NSKATE #3 for you ("As coach or choreographer, have worked with many notable skaters, including at least one Olympic medalist or senior World Champion"). --Moscow Connection (talk) 02:24, 18 April 2025 (UTC)
• Weak Keep. There's nothing super impressive, but the Sport-Strana encyclopedia source is enough to qualify as SIGCOV for SPORTCRIT, and one could argue the other mentions of her are sufficient to build an WP:NBASIC-compliant article. She also appears to meet WP:NSKATE per above, and further, she was awarded the title of Master of Sport of the International Class, the second-highest honor for Russian sportspeople, which could be argued to satisfy WP:ANYBIO as well. It doesn't seem unreasonable to think there would be further offline coverage in addition. BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:26, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.