Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kevin Paffrath (2nd nomination)

{{AFD help}}

{{Not a ballot|1=you saw https://twitter.com/realMeetKevin/status/1395427515179487232 or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIpEtu6a32s}}

:{{la|Kevin Paffrath}} – (View AfDView log)

:({{Find sources AFD|title=Kevin Paffrath}})

Fails GNG and NPOL. Only routine coverage of his gubernatorial candidacy. Obviously, just running for office does not create notability. I do not see any coverage on his Youtube channel. There is one (vanity?) article about his earnings, but otherwise I don't see any in-depth reliable coverage. 1.6 million followers is a lot but that does not create notability by itself (see Wikipedia:WikiProject YouTube/Notability) ‡ Єl Cid of Valencia ^talk 18:51, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

• Add - previously deleted at AfD, but due to recent governor candidacy since prior deletion, I am assuming good faith and putting it back through the process. ‡ Єl Cid of Valencia ^talk 18:52, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
• Please tell us El Cid, what exactly did your search that prompted you to make this nomination involve? A casual news aggregator search yielded almost 500 articles relating to Paffrath (many in major publications) that were published prior to his candidacy. I'm having a lot of difficulty understanding how you were only able to come up with one article.Pc031985 (talk) 16:10, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. ‡ Єl Cid of Valencia ^talk 18:57, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Internet-related deletion discussions. ‡ Єl Cid of Valencia ^talk 18:57, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. ‡ Єl Cid of Valencia ^talk 18:57, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

• Add - Paffrath had interview on Fox News - National US news - to talk about governorship https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Kiq2n5-bDA. Also, platform appears to made a significant numbers of videos concerning his candidacy with me counting 10 videos made in the last week to his youtube channel about the matter. RayaanIrani (talk) 07:39, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

::Being interviewed on Fox News does not create notability. And the subject making videos about himself certainly does not. ‡ Єl Cid of Valencia ^talk 14:33, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

• Wait or Migrate to draft- I don't necessarily disagree on the status of this article at present, but it has just been created. Paffrath seems to me to be the only major Democrat in this major upcoming election, and could get a lot more coverage. Full deletion feels harsh, very quickly after the page creation. I've made what I believe the mistake of flagging pages for deletion right after creation, and it's not always correct. Let's wait a week or two, or migrate it back to a draft for further work. PickleG13 (talk)

::I don't think 'waiting' is a good idea, because then the article will just remain indefinitely. If unnotable pages aren't flagged as they are created, they will remain for years or decades. It happens consistently. ‡ Єl Cid of Valencia ^talk 23:47, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

• Add - Fox News has released an article about Paffrath's video being removed on Instagram which is related to his campaign. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/newsom-meet-kevin-weanie-baby-censored-instagram I will be honest, I am a little biased as I am a consistent viewer of Meet Kevin and I will try to be as neutral as possible here. However, I do believe Paffrath will become a major candidate and can see many more articles about him coming to light in the next couple of weeks. Elli21486 (talk) 16:47, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

• Weak Keep - The [https://archive.curbed.com/2019/11/15/20963196/youtube-video-advice-real-estate-landlord Curbed] and [https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/24/magazine/finance-gurus-youtube.html New York Times] pieces are independent (and critical) coverage of his youtube channel. There's also the [https://www.nashvillepost.com/business/finance/ramsey-solutions-sues-real-estate-youtuber/article_32991202-4241-586d-96d8-b753b1ca8d22.html Nashville Post] article about his suit with Dave Ramsey. He's either just under or just over the bar in my opinion. Empire3131 (talk) 17:19, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
• Weak Keep - The page needs a lot of work. Sections are in the wrong place information is jumbled etc... I think if appropriate information is given to the page it should definitely be kept as I believe Mr Paffrath is standing as a genuine candidate. Jim 17:40, 20 May 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimwilliams975 (talk • contribs) 17:41, 20 May 2021 (UTC) — Note: An editor has expressed a concern that Jimwilliams975 (talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion.

• Keep - Business Insider published an article describing Kevin O'Leary's comments on an interview with Paffrath https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/gamestop-stock-netflix-comeback-shark-tank-kevin-oleary-short-sellers-2021-4-1030302964. Pat Hiban has interviewed Paffrath as real-estate investor and developer in Ventura CA https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/685-give-more-get-more-business-philosophy-real-estate/id832885584?i=1000417136887. BiggerPockets has also interviewed Paffrath https://art19.com/shows/biggerpockets-real-estate-podcast/episodes/0cb64e35-cfef-4f29-b739-7dc096107733. New York Times has published a multi-page op-ed on Paffrath https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/24/magazine/finance-gurus-youtube.html. Inman News published an article detailing Paffrath's 2019 arrest in connection with a dispute with another real estate investor, [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grant_Cardone Grant Cardone] https://www.inman.com/2019/03/05/popular-youtubing-agent-facing-criminal-charges-for-video-antics/. Statter911 has covered Paffrath's 'citizen reporting' of Detroit home fires https://www.statter911.com/2019/07/07/meet-kevin-wow-a-citizen-reporter-who-could-be-the-new-rhoda-young/. Paffrath is NOT a household name by any stretch. However, the move delete the page from Wiki is pre-mature and has not been fully considered. I don't know or watch the guy, but its clear this is somebody wellknown and influential in real-estate investing circles (not just youtube). Matasomething (talk) 17:46, 20 May 2021 (UTC) — {{user|Matasomething||}} has only contributed to the article(s) under discussion for deletion and this XFD page. GorillaWarfare (talk) 21:00, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

{{reftalk}}

• Keep - Kevin is a famous YouTuber with more than one millions subscribers and is a public figure. He is running for Governor and also this person is the top five YouTube financial and real estate channel. Proof of Public Figure not a private citizen.
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxiZrJUH46o
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goH0DHr-f34
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHv_8HzfQOU
• Kylekieran (talk) 19:12, 20 May 2021 (UTC) — Note: An editor has expressed a concern that Kylekieran (talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion.

• Keep - Kevin Paffrath qualifies as a notable person under multiple criteria listed in the notable persons guideline:
• Category 1 - Creative professional in the realm of YouTube influencer in personal finance:
• # Listed at 12 on a recent listing of the top 50 personal finance YouTube creators https://emma-app.com/blog/2020/01/14/top-50-personal-finance-youtubers-in-the-us/
• # Was also listed at #52 in a listing of YouTube real estate influencers https://www.amraandelma.com/100-top-real-estate-influencers/
• # YouTube influencer with a massive body of work of over 2000 videos as of this writing, current subscriber base of 1.61 million, over 356.8 million total views, 20.7 million of which were in the last 30 days, and many videos surpassing 100k views https://socialblade.com/youtube/user/kevinpaffrath.
• # Has been the subject of multiple national news articles for his work and success:
• #*https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/19/millennial-couple-earns-6-million-dollars-a-year-from-youtube-and-real-estate.html
• #*https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/24/magazine/finance-gurus-youtube.html
• #*https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/06/kevin-oleary-reacts-to-a-couple-who-earn-6-million-dollars.html
• Category 2 - Entertainer as an opinion maker
• # Has a very large fan base or cult following on YouTube as noted above. Also has 125.5k Twitter followers https://mobile.twitter.com/realMeetKevin, 104k Instagram followers https://www.instagram.com/meetkevin/, and 10.1k FaceBook followers https://m.facebook.com/pg/meetkevin/community/
• # Has produced over 2000 videos receiving 356.8 million views as noted above.
• Category 3 - Politician
• # Is a high-profile candidate for a state gubernatorial special election that is the subject of major national news coverage.
• # Has been the subject of multiple national and local news stories:
• #*https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/kevin-paffrath-meet-kevin-youtuber-becomes-26th-candidate-to-announce-challenge-to-newsom/ar-BB1gQcEE
• #*https://www.foxnews.com/politics/newsom-meet-kevin-weanie-baby-censored-instagram
• #*https://www.kusi.com/meet-democrat-california-gubernatorial-candidate-kevin-paffrath/
• #*https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/fox-supports-democrat-meet-kevin-paffraths-plan-for-governor-of-ca-301295881.html
• #*https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/official-announcement-new-democratic-candidate-for-governor-to-replace-gavin-newsom-301292509.html
• Even each of these categories individually could arguably be enough to qualify Kevin for notability under the wikipedia guidelines. Combined, however, they more than objectively surpass the criteria set forth. 206.127.53.6 (talk) 20:02, 20 May 2021 (UTC)snoopsnet — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.127.53.6 — {{user|206.127.53.6||}} has only contributed to the article(s) under discussion for deletion and this XFD page. GorillaWarfare (talk) 21:00, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

• Keep He meets all of the items in WP:GNG tavatar (discuss–?) 19:32, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

• Why delete this page? I don't understand. He's running for Governor of California. keep kevin Jjeff500 (talk) 19:30, 20 May 2021 (UTC) — {{user|Jjeff500||}} has only contributed to the article(s) under discussion for deletion and this XFD page. GorillaWarfare (talk) 21:26, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
• Do not delete Kevin Jjeff500 (talk) 19:30, 20 May 2021 (UTC) — {{user|Jjeff500||}} has only contributed to the article(s) under discussion for deletion and this XFD page. GorillaWarfare (talk) 21:26, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
• Delete, per BLP1E. There are [https://www.tubics.com/blog/number-of-youtube-channels/#:~:text=How%20many%20YouTubers%20have%201,having%20over%201%20million%20subscribers. over 22,000 Youtube channels] with at least as many subscribers as Mr. Paffrath. Most in favor of "keep" are repeating some variation of the fact that he declared a (longshot) candidacy for governor three days ago. It smells like a classic 1E-type publicity stunt which will not generate WP:LASTING coverage. AOC didn't have an article until she won her primary. Any supposition of notability for Paffrath today is CRYSTALBALLing hypothetical future notability if he wins a primary. BTW, it's worth noting that the canvassing is coming from the man himself, as he's [https://twitter.com/realMeetKevin/status/1395427515179487232 directed his youtube/twitter followers] to brigade this discussion. Axem Titanium (talk) 21:53, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
• He passes WP:BLP1E, he's been covered in the New York Times and Curbed for his youtube channel, and his youtube channel makes him a high-profile individual by the definition at WP:LOWPROFILE. He might fail GNG/ENT, and definitely fails NPOL right now.Empire3131 (talk) 01:52, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
• The problem with your argument is that unlike AOC, who was an obscure bartender and low-level campaign worker prior to winning election, Paffrath is not primarily a politician or political candidate. His candidacy had little impact on the size of his platform, and almost 500 news articles in major publications had already been written about him over the years prior to his political announcement. By all appearances this is little different than a Bloomberg-style campaign, a political outsider with considerable pre-existing notability (albeit less than Bloomberg) and substantial financial backing ($20M net worth) who wants to win office.Pc031985 (talk) 14:29, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
• Keep Adding to public figure interviews adding more evidence to high profile figure. KUSI News out of San Diego interviewed him at 7:24am on May 20, 2021. While the reference video is from Paffrath's channel it does show proof of live TV interview to public. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKiP_cyQglw.
• In addition Kevin O'Leary who is a figure of note with his own Wiki page has recently (May 2021) done a featured story on Paffrath that was featured on both CNBC https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/06/kevin-oleary-reacts-to-a-couple-who-earn-6-million-dollars.html and MSN https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/smallbusiness/kevin-o-leary-reacts-to-millennial-couple-bringing-in-millions-from-youtube/vi-BB1gqM6x?ocid=a2hs
• And while it has been mentioned above in addition to all the interviews for the governor race he was always featured in news stories last year such as being featured on MSN's Millennial Money news segment in November 2020.https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/19/millennial-couple-earns-6-million-dollars-a-year-from-youtube-and-real-estate.html GalakStarscraper (talk) 06:21, 21 May 2021 (UTC) — Note: An editor has expressed a concern that GalakStarscraper (talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion. Good day GorillaWarfare -- I was not canvassed. I have helped with Wiki articles before. Searched the topic, saw the discussion and added to it. GalakStarscraper (talk) 21:41, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
• :Thanks for clarifying, I'm sure the closing admin will take that into consideration. Some people were unquestionably canvassed here, and so I have simply applied that tag to anyone who has previously contributed, but has not edited in 2021 aside to comment in this discussion and/or edit Paffrath's page. Certainly there are other reasonable explanations for it besides canvassing, but it does help to tag anomalous comments in discussions such as this where off-wiki attention has been drawn. GorillaWarfare (talk) 00:41, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
• The question, Gorilla, is why are you tagging each and every 'keep' vote as canvassed? There are 3-4 editors you've tagged that have long editing histories on a variety of topics. Try having some evidence before you go smearing others.Pc031985 (talk) 21:15, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
• {{moved|Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Kevin Paffrath (2nd nomination)#Canvassing tags|2=GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 21:20, 23 May 2021 (UTC)}}
• Pc031985 has been indefinitely blocked on WP:NOTHERE and WP:NPA grounds [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:Pc031985]. XOR'easter (talk) 15:19, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

{{reftalk}}

• Delete or wait per WP:BLP1E. The original article appeared as if it was written by the subject or someone close to him. The article's BLP1E status seems to hinge on (a) whether YouTube followers make a subject notable, and (b) whether running for office makes a subject notable. Many people run for office, including the governorship of California, yet are not considered notable, so the answer to (b) seems to be a relatively uncontroversial "no". The answer to (a) seems to be an interesting question, in that the subject derives income from publicity and publicity from income, and therefore seeks WP mention as a means of driving both. I would say that the article should wait until the subject does something notable. There are many real estate agents in California. Voronwae (talk) 13:55, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
• Delete non-notable political candidate with huge promotional concerns, fails BLP1E, 10YT. Political candidates notable only within their candidacy do not pass our notability guidelines unless some major exception applies, which isn't the case here yet. SportingFlyer T·C 15:19, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
• Keep Clearly a notable figure who meets all WP:GNG criteria. BLP1E doesn't apply since he was highly notable prior to running for office, and the decision to run didn't have a significant impact on his existing platform. He had already become a high-tier figure in the podcast/video-news world, interviewing very well-known voices in videos that get hundreds of thousands of viewers each, and already had a considerably larger regular viewership than many cable and broadcast TV news programs. Most of his interview subjects of recent years are notable enough for articles, which says something. There is plenty of secondary-source coverage to warrant an inclusion; a simple aggregator search yielded almost 500 articles in notable news sources that were published prior to his political announcement (with most of the overall coverage predating his campaign), which scuttles 1E arguments that coverage/notability resulted mainly from his candidacy, and makes primary characterizations of 'political candidate' disingenuous or uninformed. I found that coverage within a few minutes, so I'm not sure what exactly was involved in the search by the deletion nominator El Cid, who incredibly claims he found just one article. Flyer's speculative concerns around promotion would be counterbalanced by a possible political motive to put him out of view (particularly given his ability to self-fund a major on-the-ground campaign). I'm not claiming that towards anyone here, I just feel the two factors cancel themselves out.Pc031985 (talk) 13:55, 22 May 2021 — Note: An editor has expressed a concern that Pc031985 (talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion.
• False, not canvassed. I have edited WP extensively on a variety of topics but it had been a while and I lost track of my previous username. I don't even support Paffrath's politics. I am here because subject is clearly notable, and tired of the frequent bullying by cliques of WP editors who seek to tear down and bury unpopular/inconvenient people.Pc031985 (talk) 20:07, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
• Thanks for the explanation, I'm sure the closer will take that into account. If you are able to remember your previous username, it is best practice to declare the connection on your userpage using {{tl|User previous account}} or something similar. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 20:10, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
• Don’t delete — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:8000:1A03:C672:C07D:4797:C900:4A70 (talk) 03:23, 23 May 2021 (UTC) — 2603:8000:1A03:C672:C07D:4797:C900:4A70 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
• Keep: Article is good enough to pass WP:GNG with reliable sources indicated above (except YouTube and podcasts). ASTIG😎 _{(ICE T • ICE CUBE)} 03:30, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
• User:Superastig, please be specific, and help the closing administrator out. That admin is not going to look at your comment, then go back, and simply assume that all the others must be OK. Drmies (talk) 20:31, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
• Keep: per WP:GNG. There are in-depth,reliable sources to meet requirements for GNG --Kemalcan (talk) 07:53, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
• Kemalcan, you will have to be much more specific than that if you want to convince the closing administrator. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 20:31, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
• Keep: per WP:GNG. Noticed Fox40, KUSI, John & Ken FM 640 in LA, and Kennedy Saves the World (Fox Radio), each added articles since the discussion above has begun. Added citations for the reference of any discussion above, which likely has not considered these citations yet. WalterWhite72 (talk) 19:32, 23 May 2021 (UTC) — {{user|WalterWhite72||}} has only contributed to the article(s) under discussion for deletion and this XFD page. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 20:00, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

:*Unfortunately those sorts of sources (I may have missed one) appear to be routine campaign articles. Wikipedia keeps or deletes articles based on enduring notability, and the vast majority of political candidates do not have enduring notability, and he hasn't risen to that level yet. While it's not impossible he would be notable as a Youtuber, not only has that not been made clear, but this article was clearly created to support his candidacy. SportingFlyer T·C 23:28, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

• Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.
  
  Summary of the sources: Why Kevin Paffrath was notable before he announced his political campaign
  
  I reviewed the articles written about Kevin Paffrath's candidacy for 2021 California gubernatorial recall election. Of the six sources I found, four sources are interviews so contribute little to notability. The other two sources are from Newsweek and Fox News, where there is disputed consensus about their reliability according to Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources#Newsweek (2013-present) and Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources#Fox News (politics and science). These two sources are mostly interviews or quoting from his press release announcement so contribute little to notability. If I were evaluating the subject's notability by reviewing only the sources published after [https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/official-announcement-new-democratic-candidate-for-governor-to-replace-gavin-newsom-301292509.html he announced his campaign on 17 May 2021]^{[https://web.archive.org/web/20210524004029/https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/official-announcement-new-democratic-candidate-for-governor-to-replace-gavin-newsom-301292509.html Internet Archive]}, I would say he clearly fails Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline.

  I am supporting retention because Kevin Paffrath became notable prior to his candidacy for public office. He was profiled in [https://archive.curbed.com/2019/11/15/20963196/youtube-video-advice-real-estate-landlord this 15 November 2019 article] in Curbed, [https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/19/millennial-couple-earns-6-million-dollars-a-year-from-youtube-and-real-estate.html this 19 November 2020 article] in CNBC, and [https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/24/magazine/finance-gurus-youtube.html this 24 March 2021 article] in The New York Times. This trio of sources demonstrates sustained coverage and allows the subject to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline.

  Kevin Paffrath has received additional coverage in reliable sources through his activities. He has received nontrivial coverage when Dave Ramsey sued him ([https://www.nashvillepost.com/business/finance/ramsey-solutions-sues-real-estate-youtuber/article_32991202-4241-586d-96d8-b753b1ca8d22.html this 11 October 2019 article] and [https://www.nashvillepost.com/business/finance/ramsey-solutions-settles-with-online-critic-out-of-court/article_143095c1-2f9a-5958-952f-092979e40cff.html this 9 January 2020 article] in NashvillePost.com) and when he was charged with trespassing for "storming" Grant Cardone's office ([https://www.inman.com/2019/03/05/popular-youtubing-agent-facing-criminal-charges-for-video-antics/ this 5 March 2019 article] in Inman News). He was profiled in [https://www.businessinsider.com/real-estate-expert-shares-his-exact-criteria-for-deal-making-2019-12 this 24 December 2019 article] in Business Insider.

  Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria says: "People are presumed {{strong|notable}} if they have received significant coverage in {{strong|multiple published}} {{strong|secondary sources}} that are {{strong|reliable}}, {{strong|intellectually independent}} of each other, and {{strong|independent of the subject}}. If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources may not be sufficient to establish notability." The combination of all of the reliable sources strongly establishes Kevin Paffrath is notable.
  
  Sources before he announced his political campaign on 17 May 2021
  
  

  1. Detailed profiles:

     1. {{cite news |no-tracking=yes |last=Jackson |first=Adlan |date=2021-03-24 |title=Why Finance Gurus Switched Their Bait From Millions to Thousands of Dollars |url=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/24/magazine/finance-gurus-youtube.html |newspaper=The New York Times |accessdate=2021-05-24 |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524004001/https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/24/magazine/finance-gurus-youtube.html |archivedate=2021-05-24 }}

        The article notes: "Paffrath has a charisma that cuts through all this. He’s exceptionally talented at talking to a camera, a natural salesman. But when he turns to a flowchart breaking down the Biden stimulus proposal, what might even be sincerity leaks out. Judging by the ad hoc community formed in his comments sections, his viewers appreciate it."

     2. {{cite news |no-tracking=yes |last=Martin |first=Emmie |date=2020-11-19 |title=This millennial couple earns $6 million a year from YouTube and real estate—here’s how they spend their money |url=https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/19/millennial-couple-earns-6-million-dollars-a-year-from-youtube-and-real-estate.html |publisher=CNBC |accessdate=2021-05-24 |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524004106/https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/19/millennial-couple-earns-6-million-dollars-a-year-from-youtube-and-real-estate.html |archivedate=2021-05-24 }}

        The article notes: "In 2017, Kevin Paffrath’s dream was to earn over $1 million a year from The Paffrath Organization, the real estate business he owns with his wife, Lauren, in Ventura, California. In 2020, the couple earned $1.075 million in May alone. ... As his YouTube channel became increasingly lucrative, Kevin, 28, began dedicating more and more time to creating content, including getting up before the sun to make several videos a day. Lauren is the property manager for the couple’s real estate business and has also taken on full-time child-care duties for their two young sons, Jack, 5, and Max, 2."

     3. {{cite news |no-tracking=yes |last=Wright |first=Steven T. |date=2019-11-15 |title=Meet the newest YouTube stars on the block: landlords |url=https://archive.curbed.com/2019/11/15/20963196/youtube-video-advice-real-estate-landlord |website=Curbed |accessdate=2021-05-24 |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524004029/https://archive.curbed.com/2019/11/15/20963196/youtube-video-advice-real-estate-landlord |archivedate=2021-05-24 }}

        The article notes: "But if you spend an hour or two watching the YouTube channels of landlord influencers like Kevin “Meet Kevin” Paffrath, you’ll soon learn that investing in real estate is the first step toward creating “lasting wealth”—or, in Paffrath’s case, gaining a net worth of $5.5 million by age 27, as he claims in one of his videos. ... Though Paffrath’s cheery videos can make buying property sound like an achievable goal for many Americans, the reality is less optimistic."

  2. Articles about lawsuits and trespassing:

     1. {{cite news |no-tracking=yes |last=Blois |first=Matt |date=2019-10-11 |title=Ramsey Solutions sues real estate YouTuber. Finance guru's firm claims breach of contract and theft of trade secrets |url=https://www.nashvillepost.com/business/finance/ramsey-solutions-sues-real-estate-youtuber/article_32991202-4241-586d-96d8-b753b1ca8d22.html |website=NashvillePost.com |accessdate=2021-05-24 |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524004028/https://www.nashvillepost.com/business/finance/ramsey-solutions-sues-real-estate-youtuber/article_32991202-4241-586d-96d8-b753b1ca8d22.html |archivedate=2021-05-24 }}

        The article notes: "Ramsey Solutions claims that Kevin Paffrath, a real estate investor in Southern California who posts advice about the industry on YouTube, fraudulently joined a program that sends businesses new clients and published propriety information and disparaging comments online. In court filings, Paffrath claims that the lawsuit is simply an attempt at censorship and a violation of his free speech."

     2. {{cite news |no-tracking=yes |last=Blois |first=Matt |date=2020-01-09 |title=Ramsey Solutions settles with online critic out of court. Real estate agent had mocked finance guru on YouTube |url=https://www.nashvillepost.com/business/finance/ramsey-solutions-settles-with-online-critic-out-of-court/article_143095c1-2f9a-5958-952f-092979e40cff.html |website=NashvillePost.com |accessdate=2021-05-24 |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524004042/https://www.nashvillepost.com/business/finance/ramsey-solutions-settles-with-online-critic-out-of-court/article_143095c1-2f9a-5958-952f-092979e40cff.html |archivedate=2021-05-24 }}

        The article notes: "A December order dismissing the case doesn’t provide financial details about the settlement. ... Ramsey Solutions claims Paffrath didn’t communicate well with the company — which Paffrath disputes — and decided to remove him from the program."

     3. {{cite news |no-tracking=yes |last=Hale |first=Steven |date=2019-11-06 |title=Deposition: Yes, Dave Ramsey Pulled Out a Gun in a Staff Meeting. Deposition: Yes, Dave Ramsey Pulled Out a Gun in a Staff Meeting |url=https://www.nashvillescene.com/news/pith-in-the-wind/article/21096181/deposition-yes-dave-ramsey-pulled-out-a-gun-in-staff-meeting-decrying-gossip |newspaper=Nashville Scene |accessdate=2021-05-24 |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524004051/https://www.nashvillescene.com/news/pith-in-the-wind/article/21096181/deposition-yes-dave-ramsey-pulled-out-a-gun-in-staff-meeting-decrying-gossip |archivedate=2021-05-24 }}

        The article notes that Dave Ramsey, an "evangelical financial guru", filed a lawsuit "late last year against a California real estate agent named Kevin Paffrath who had posted several YouTube videos about Ramsey. ... The videos at the center of it appear to have been taken down, but Paffrath has devoted other videos to criticism of Ramsey." The article notes that the Nashville lawyer Daniel Horwitz was Paffrath's lawyer in the case and had experience with "so-called SLAPP lawsuits".

     4. {{cite news |no-tracking=yes |author=Dalrymple, Jim, II |date=2019-03-05 |title=Popular YouTuber agent facing criminal charges for video antics. Kevin Paffrath was charged with trespassing after storming the office of Grant Cardone in December |url=https://www.inman.com/2019/03/05/popular-youtubing-agent-facing-criminal-charges-for-video-antics/ |website=Inman News |accessdate=2021-05-24 |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524004104/https://www.inman.com/2019/03/05/popular-youtubing-agent-facing-criminal-charges-for-video-antics/ |archivedate=2021-05-24 }}

        The article notes: "Kevin Paffrath, better known as Meet Kevin on YouTube and Instagram, was charged in February with trespassing and disorderly conduct, both misdemeanors. The charges stem from a Dec. 21 incident in which Paffrath, who is based in the Los Angeles area, flew to Miami and showed up at the offices of Grant Cardone ..."

  3. Additional sources:

     1. {{cite news |no-tracking=yes |last=Martin |first=Emmie |date=2021-05-06 |title=Kevin O’Leary reacts to a couple who earns $6 million a year through YouTube and real estate |url=https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/06/kevin-oleary-reacts-to-a-couple-who-earn-6-million-dollars.html |publisher=CNBC |accessdate=2021-05-24 |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524004145/https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/06/kevin-oleary-reacts-to-a-couple-who-earn-6-million-dollars.html |archivedate=2021-05-24 }}

        The article notes: "O’Leary is impressed with how they handle money as a couple though. ... O’Leary also applauds Kevin getting into YouTube as well as real estate because it gives the couple multiple streams of income.  “With Kevin, I think it’s in his nature to always work and he kind of gets a high from making money,” Lauren says."

     2. {{cite news |no-tracking=yes |last=Competiello |first=Christopher |date=2019-12-24 |title='My net worth went up at least $100,000 on each purchase.' A 27 year-old real-estate expert shares how he sniffs out the perfect deal with 'virtually no risk' |url=https://www.businessinsider.com/real-estate-expert-shares-his-exact-criteria-for-deal-making-2019-12 |website=Business Insider |accessdate=2021-05-24 |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524004411/https://www.businessinsider.com/real-estate-expert-shares-his-exact-criteria-for-deal-making-2019-12 |archivedate=2021-05-24 }}

        The article notes: "At the time, Paffrath was 19 — and he was growing tired of "dead-end" jobs at Jamba Juice and Red Robin. ... Once he acquired his license, insatiable curiosity led Paffrath to search out all aspects of the real-estate business. ... Today, Paffrath's portfolio has a value of just under $6.2 million — and he's only 27-years-old."

     3. {{cite news |no-tracking=yes |last=Fishman |first=Scott |date=2008-09-28 |title=Explorers on target |url=https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-2008-09-28-0809250351-story.html |newspaper=Sun-Sentinel |accessdate=2021-05-24 |archiveurl=https://archive.today/2021.04.09-200256/https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-2008-09-28-0809250351-story.html |archivedate=2021-05-24 }}

        The article is trivial coverage about the subject when he was 16 years old. The article does not contribute to notability I am including it for completeness from my research. The article notes: "Kevin Paffrath, 16, competed in Shoot/Don't Shoot and Domestic Crisis Intervention. Paffrath has been on 51 ride-alongs this past year, which he said helped prepare him for the conference."

  Sources after he announced his political campaign on 17 May 2021
  
  

  1. {{cite news |no-tracking=yes |date=2021-05-23 |title=YouTuber Kevin Paffrath talks about his candidacy for governor |url=https://fox40.com/inside-california-politics/youtuber-kevin-paffrath-talks-about-his-candidacy-for-governor/ |publisher=KTXL |accessdate=2021-05-24 |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524011157/https://fox40.com/inside-california-politics/youtuber-kevin-paffrath-talks-about-his-candidacy-for-governor/ |archivedate=2021-05-24 }}

     This is an interview. It contributes very little to notability.

  2. {{cite news |no-tracking=yes |last=Phinney |first=Lauren |date=2021-05-20 |title=Meet Democrat California Gubernatorial candidate Kevin Paffrath |url=https://www.kusi.com/meet-democrat-california-gubernatorial-candidate-kevin-paffrath/ |publisher=KUSI-TV |accessdate=2021-05-24 |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524011151/https://www.kusi.com/meet-democrat-california-gubernatorial-candidate-kevin-paffrath/ |archivedate=2021-05-24 }}

     This is an interview. It contributes very little to notability.

  3. {{cite news |no-tracking=yes |author=Kennedy |author-link=Kennedy (commentator) |date=2021-05-21 |title=Kennedy Saves California…Again |url=https://radio.foxnews.com/2021/05/21/kennedy-saves-california-again/ |publisher=Fox News Radio |accessdate=2021-05-24 |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524011207/https://radio.foxnews.com/2021/05/21/kennedy-saves-california-again/ |archivedate=2021-05-24 }}

     This is an interview. It contributes very little to notability.

  4. {{cite news |no-tracking=yes |author=Kennedy |author-link=Kennedy (commentator) |date=2021-05-19 |title=YouTuber enters California gubernatorial race |url=https://video.foxbusiness.com/v/6254882643001 |publisher=Fox Business |accessdate=2021-05-24 |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524011234/https://video.foxbusiness.com/v/6254882643001 |archivedate=2021-05-24 }}

     This is an interview and may be the same interview as the previous source. It contributes very little to notability.

  5. {{cite news |no-tracking=yes |last=Jackson |first=Jon |date=2021-05-17 |title=Kevin Paffrath, 'Meet Kevin' YouTuber, Becomes 26th Candidate to Announce Challenge to Newsom |url=https://www.newsweek.com/meet-kevin-governor-1592294 |magazine=Newsweek |accessdate=2021-05-24 |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524011309/https://www.newsweek.com/meet-kevin-governor-1592294 |archivedate=2021-05-24 }}

     This article discusses Kevin Paffrath's candidacy and mostly quotes from his press release announcement. It contributes very little to notability.

  6. {{cite news |no-tracking=yes |last=Ruiz |first=Michael |date=2021-05-19 |title=Newsom challenger calls embattled guv a 'weanie baby,' post briefly removed from Instagram. Kevin Paffrath is a California real estate agent and social media personality known as Meet Kevin |url=https://www.foxnews.com/politics/newsom-meet-kevin-weanie-baby-censored-instagram |publisher=Fox News |accessdate=2021-05-24 |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20210524011319/https://www.foxnews.com/politics/newsom-meet-kevin-weanie-baby-censored-instagram |archivedate=2021-05-24 }}

     This is mostly an interview. It contributes very little to notability.

  There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Kevin Paffrath to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

  Cunard (talk) 01:33, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

• Keep based on the coverage in the New York Times, Curbed and the Nashville Post that Empire3131 pointed out earlier. He is marginally notable as a real estate investor and YouTuber. I am taking a look only at the coverage that pre-dates his candidacy because he obviously fails WP:NPOL as an unelected candidate with routine campaign announcements and interviews in a race likely to have a massive field of candidates. The references are a shambles, and the article needs a lot of work, and the most important thing is that the article must not be permitted to become a campaign brochure. Many of the people commenting above have been canvassed and have negligible knowledge of Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. The closing administrator will have to discount those comments and give highest priority to the informed, policy based comments, but that's why administrators get paid far more than YouTube influencers, right? Just kidding. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 01:35, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

:*I don't think the Nashville Post is significant - it's just about a lawsuit, and the Curbed article was written before their New Yorker purchase. Ignoring the campaign, I still don't think it's enough: there's a reason why this article was launched to co-incide with the campaign. SportingFlyer T·C 12:03, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

::*The Curbed article was written 5 days after Vox Media's purchase of Curbed was announced. Regardless, I think Curbed has been a reliable source both before and after its acquisition. I agree that the Nashville Post article is marginal. Empire3131 (talk) 15:34, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

• Comment to Kevin Paffrath and his campaign team since they are following this discussion based on [https://twitter.com/realMeetKevin/status/1395427515179487232 this Twitter post] and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIpEtu6a32s this YouTube video]: Please see Talk:Kevin Paffrath#Photos of Kevin Paffrath: Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AKevin_Paffrath&diff=1024804204&oldid=1024785299 permanent link]) regarding how to add photos of Kevin Paffrath to his Wikipedia article. Cunard (talk) 05:08, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
• Keep as I believe Cunard's analysis of sources shows notability. If not as a politician, than a YouTuber, I guess. versacespaceleave a message! 11:52, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
• Comment {{tq|a multimillionaire landlord who once extolled the virtues of misleading tenants and vigorously refusing to rent to people with suboptimal credit scores}} ... I think this might be one of those times when an "influencer" will regret having a Wikipedia page. XOR'easter (talk) 15:04, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
• Comment No kidding! Sucks for them! Although they did respond saying it's normal for property managers to have credit criteria and to conceal owner identity. Seems like Wiki should probably provide some sort of clarification there given that the phrasing of the NYT article seems misleading with this context. But that is what they said. I do suppose that's one of the dangers of secondary sources though for people who have wiki's on them. WalterWhite72 (talk)
• Probably a discussion for the article talk page, as this is not related to whether the article ought to be deleted. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 17:27, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
• Keep looks to be clearly notable, one being a YouTuber doesn't make them less notable. Elli (talk | contribs) 20:23, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
• Delete I point out the NYT article describes him as "one of dozens" That's good evidence of non notability from a RS. Additionally, we should never be influenced by an external campaign to keep a WP article, for it can be assumed that this shows COI. This applies whether the coverage is positive or negative. DGG ( talk ) 16:25, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
• Take another look at the New York Times article, {{u|DGG}}. "Dozens" refers to the number of videos uploaded to YouTube daily about real estate, and the word does not apply to Paffrath. The NYT didn't write about those other YouTubers but instead chose to publish ten paragraphs about Paffrath. That's significant coverage. The article in its current form is far different than when it was nominated, because experienced, uninvolved editors have improved it dramatically. My "keep" recommendation has nothing to do with any external campaign. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:13, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
• Keep per indepth coverage in this CNBC article, https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/19/millennial-couple-earns-6-million-dollars-a-year-from-youtube-and-real-estate.html, which, with the lesser mentions, is sufficient for Wikipedia:Notability, and has little to do with running for governor. That can only add to his notability. --GRuban (talk) 22:15, 26 May 2021 (UTC) Note: {{user|GRuban||}} has contributed to plenty of unrelated articles over his fifteen years at Wikipedia, and has not been canvassed to come here, but would feel left out if he didn't have small print after his Keep opinion. --GRuban (talk) 22:15, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.