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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kyron Horman

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. As a classic BLP1E and magnet for potential BLPVIOs the delete arguments are based on policy while the keep side also strong is based on guidelines. Policy always trumps guidelines - especially avoiding harm. Spartaz Humbug! 04:59, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

=[[Kyron Horman]]=

:{{la|Kyron Horman}} – (View AfDView log{{•}} {{plainlink|1=http://toolserver.org/~betacommand/cgi-bin/afdparser?afd={{urlencode:Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kyron Horman}}|2=AfD statistics}})

:({{Find sources|Kyron Horman}})

Not notable person per Wikipedia:Notability (criminal acts)#Notability of perpetrators and victims. Kyron Herman has not achieved any notability outside of being a victim of a crime. (In addition, the article formerly served as vehicle for noxious implications against the victim's mother. These have been removed but one has to question the whole point of this article existing.) Herostratus (talk) 18:15, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

  • Rename to Disappearance of Kyron Horman (or the like) - the case has been covered by CNN, People, Good Morning America, and way too much in The Oregonian, and that's just those I know of. The above cited notability guideline relates to if their should be an article about the victim only, and not whether there should be an article covering the crime. Aboutmovies (talk) 04:53, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
  • Rename per Aboutmovies, there appears to be sufficient notability for the crime itself to pass WP:N -- RP459 Talk/Contributions 14:29, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 19:32, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
  • Delete - Doesn't match the criterion for inclusion. Dawnseeker2000 02:12, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
  • Keep -- This has been a continued media presence in the state of Oregon for at least a month, maybe two now, with almost daily updates on the evening news. It's been on the cover of People magazine. Seems notable enough. -- Andrew Olivo Parodi (talk) 09:31, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
  • Tentative Delete. As much as I hate to say it, this isn't entirely notable enough for inclusion. It is famous now, but will it be in the future? I could say the same for pretty much any kidnapping/murder case. I say that for the moment (especially since there is an extreme lack of information on the page) we should delete the page & just list it on the page List of kidnappings, if that. It is a tragedy that this happened, but unlike cases such as the Natalee Holloway (extradition issues) or murder cases such as the Jasmine Fiore case (first reality show murder), there is nothing to really make this case stand out against other kidnapping/(possible) murder cases out there. At best I think that we should watch the page to see if anything noteworthy happens. Tokyogirl79 (talk) 10:29, 6 July 2010 (UTC)tokyogirl79
  • Delete per Herostratus. Subject is not notable. WP is not a newspaper and should not have an article for every crime victim. -- Ssilvers (talk) 15:07, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
  • Delete per Herostratus and Ssilvers. In the United States every three days a child under the age of 13 is murdered by a stranger. Being a crime victim does not make you notable, particularly one that happens so often. Wikipedia is not a primary news source. See the above delete comments. Nick Beeson (talk) 16:00, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
  • keep Meets WP:GNG, not a single event, lots of reliable sources for verifiability. Indeed, being a missing child or murdered does not make you notable, but thousands of Google News hits does.

:@Nwbeeson, We judge notability via significant coverage, not depending on whether it is 'unique' or not.

:@Tokyogirl79, This story is evolving over a long period, and there are lots of reliable sources; it is becoming increasingly complex, and not just one event; e.g. [redacted], and extended discussions re. the affects on the police budgets; see Google News.

:@Dawnseeker2000 Re. {{xt|Doesn't match the criterion for inclusion}} - please could you note which policies you are referring to? It certainly meets the general notability guidelines.

: Chzz  ►  13:48, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

::I had to redact part of Chzz's post for BLP reasons. This does highlight one of the points made in in the nom. Although it doesn't really bear on whether the the person is notable or the article should exist, its likely to be a BLP maintenance problem. Is it worth it? Herostratus (talk) 18:04, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

:::The redacted statement was "allegation re. the step-mother paying to have her husband killed". References to support this claim include;

:::*[http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20009764-504083.html Kyron Horman's Stepmom Accused of Attempted Murder-for-Hire Plot, Says Report], Caroline Black, CBS News, July 6

:::*[http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/landscaper_tells_police_terri.html#incart_mce Landscaper tells detectives Terri Moulton Horman offered him money to kill her husband], Maxine Bernstein, The Oregonian, July 4  Chzz  ►  12:58, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

:Delete C'mon this is an ENCYCLOPEDIA not a missing persons hotline. Fails WP:Bio. Dr. Blofeld White cat 20:16, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

:Rename to Disappearance of Kyron Horman per Aboutmovies. The article as it stands doesn't give you much of an idea how big this has gotten; it's getting coast-to-coast coverage, and keeps developing. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 20:22, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

:Strong Delete: There are 800,000 missing people in the US only per Missing_person#U.S._statistics. Although it may sound regrettable, Wikipedia's mission is different. --Sulmues Let's talk 13:35, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

  • Keep -- Anyone who objects to this doesn't care about the news. The story has been front page news, on CNN's HLN every day, and on AOL's Welcome Screen for several weeks. Whether the story is worthy of national news is beside the point. There isn't the slightest doubt that it is notable.Aardvarkzz (talk) 18:10, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep -- This is ALL OVER mainstream news, and has been a constant presence for a while now. This is more than notable, and definitely qualifies in Wiki's standards. It just has to be rewritten, and needs more sources.Blindeffigy (talk) 23:38, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
  • Delete. For the same reasons as Dr Blofield and Herostratus. Tomas Jennings (talk) 16:36, 10 July 2010 (UTC) — Tomas Jennings (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. {{ #if: | The preceding unsigned comment was added at {{{2}}} (UTC).}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.