Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/LGD Gaming (organization)

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:{{la|LGD Gaming (organization)}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [https://tools.wmflabs.org/jackbot/snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/LGD_Gaming_(organization) Stats])

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A while back, I lead a cleanup effort on the original LGD Gaming page, which eventually lead to me culling all content outside of their Dota 2 division as their sourcing was either nonexistent or just unreliable at best. Due to that, I just ended up moving the page and scope to PSG.LGD, which was their Dota 2 division that formed a branding sponsorship with the PSG football team earlier this year, as they actually have valid media coverage. I'm now nominating this attempt at recreating a main LGD Gaming page due to the bad sources that fail WP:N, such as Liquidpedia and Chinese social media links. I've already explained this situation multiple times to the page creator LGDGamingFan, who just doesn't seem to understand why this was done in the first place. This has been an issue for months, with another editor being banned for sockpuppetry, threats, and claimed WP:COI to the organization. For more information, see the PSG.LGD talk page. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 22:03, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions. PriceDL (talk) 22:14, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. PriceDL (talk) 22:14, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of China-related deletion discussions. PriceDL (talk) 22:14, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

• Delete as a unnecessary split that cant meet the notability requirements independently. I’d be open to a merge, but I think the whole reason the article creator made this was because of the subjects’ connections, so I doubt that would do much to help with their dispute. Sergecross73 msg me 01:51, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
• Like I said in the nomination post, I changed the scope of the article once I found that the company's coverage in reliable sources, outside of its Dota team, was severely lacking. Therefore, I don't even agree that a merger would be ideal with the current sources, which is the entire reason I changed the scope in the first place. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 07:59, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
• Delete - No inherit notability Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:42, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
• Delete per nom; possibly undisclosed COI. Lordtobi (✉) 17:55, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
• Delete clearly not notable Chetsford (talk) 18:59, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

I really don't understand what you are trying to accomplish here. Are you saying that LGD Gaming isn't real and it is a fictional organization that does independently field teams away from PSG? LGD Gaming is an esports organization independent of PSG. Please help me understand why you are trying to get this page deleted. Is it your contention that LGD does not: Field esport team independently of PSG? Is LGD Gaming a fictional organization that does not exist? Help me understand so I can get the right information and source it for you. Apparently, sourcing their own web site isn't enough? LGDGamingFan (talk) 16:19, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

What about this source from Blizzard's [https://overwatchcontenders.com/en-us/teams Contenders League Page itself]? Is this not good enough?LGDGamingFan (talk) 16:23, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

Or how about [http://www.espn.com/esports/story/_/id/18480716/league-legends-lpl-lgd-gaming-stats-page official stats] as they appear on ESPN? Is that also not good enough or real? I am trying not to be snarky, but I have zero understanding of why yo think there is not good sourcing.LGDGamingFan (talk) 16:30, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

• Again, you are simply confusing WP:V with WP:N. Outside of their Dota 2 division, LGD Gaming lacks coverage by third-party reliable media. Their own website, social media links, and Liquidpedia all fail WP:N and thus should not be the only cited sources in the article. And while the Overwatch Contenders link also fails WP:N, the ESPN link you listed, which is one of the reliable publications I've been asking for that passes both WP:V AND WP:N, is just publishing stats for a single season and gives no other context importance to the company, meaning this is not that helpful and can't save the article on its own. I'm not making the claim that the organization doesn't exist, just rather it fails notability guidelines as a Wikipedia article. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 18:55, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
• Delete. Simply doesn't pass notability. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 16:31, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

::Moved down because I'm 99% {{re|Dissident93}} isn't talking to me. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 19:02, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

So does this [https://esportsobserver.com/hangzhou-opens-esports-town/ Esports Observer] article where it says that in regards to the 3.94 million square foot esports arena just built and will accommodate LGd Gaming's League of Legends team, pass notability. My problem is the information is out there, but it seems you or whoever didn't really look that hard to find it. Almost as if some didnt want this article to happen?

"LGD Gaming and Allied Esports have opened up a joint office and esports venue in the town. This will become LGD’s home venue for the League of Legends Pro League (LPL)." "In addition, part of LGD’s management team will move into the town." LGDGamingFan (talk) 00:14, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Does the [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/esports/article-4962546/LGD-mid-laner-Godv-drops-LoL-PUBG-esports-team.html Daily Mail article] on LGD Gaming's PUBG roster move count? Who is the authority on which publications count in your eyes?

Or what about [https://dotesports.com/overwatch/news/overwatch-contenders-third-2018-season-is-kicking-off-across-all-regions DOTEsports who is reporting] on the first season of China's Overwatch League which LGD Gaming is playing and sanctioned by Blizzard? LGDGamingFan (talk) 00:24, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

• Correct, these are not considered reliable sources. If you don’t understand identifying reliable sources on your own, WP:VG/S is a good guide for sources related to the video game world. Pretty certain Daily Mail has a much wider, general consensus for not being usable on Wikipedia. Sergecross73 msg me 15:22, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Does [https://www.foxsportsasia.com/esports/982251/hangzhou-china-opens-280-million-esports-town/ Fox Sports Count in relationship to to the facility LGD Gaming] will be using for it's offices and League of Legends team? It seems like there isnt a single esports site on this list of sites I am looking at. In fact, ESPN has quoted and used Dot Esports, Esports Observer, and VPEsports in their articles.LGDGamingFan (talk) 17:29, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

:I assume Fox Sports Asia is probably usable in a general sense, but that source is short and primarily about an esport venue, not the subject itself. It’s more of what we call a “passing mention”, which is usable in writing an article, but less so for proving notability. Sergecross73 msg me 17:56, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

::Yes, most of the reliable publications that do mention the non-Dota 2 sides of LGD are supplementary and not the ones you generally build articles around. Meaning, if we already had a well-sourced LGD Gaming page, these would be included. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 22:00, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

• Delete/redirect not independently notable, but could redirect to PSG.LGD --DannyS712 (talk) 21:02, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
• LGD Gaming already does, by the way. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 21:04, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.