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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lily Elise

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to The Voice (U.S. TV series). Going out on a limb a bit here. The nom is a good one, and neither of the Keep votes adequately rebut it. Given that the AfD has already been relisted twice, the obvious "compromise" is to redirect to the parent show (as we normally do for non-winners or otherwise notable contestants). This also maintains the edit history should Ms.Elise become obviously notable in the future. Black Kite (t) (c) 23:10, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

=[[Lily Elise]]=

:{{la|Lily Elise}} – (View AfDView log)

:({{Find sources|Lily Elise}})

Contested prod. This is a contestant in a reality television show, who as of this writing has yet to be named a winner (which is, as we all already know, the bare minimum that Wikipedia requires for deeming a reality show contestant to be notable; contestants are not normally entitled to articles just for being contestants.) The article also has no reliable, independent sources to demonstrate notability outside of this context; all of its sources (including the ones that led the creator to feel entitled to deprod) are directly affiliated with either Ms. Elise herself or the program. Delete. Bearcat (talk) 00:54, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

  • Keep You have inaccurately detailed Wikipedia's requirement for deeming a reality show contestant notable. Please see The WikiProject: Idol series. The proof is here, here, here and here and here. Those are links to the "What links here" section of the templates for each season of Idol, listing the contestants, who have their own pages. The Voice (U.S. TV series) follows a similar format to American Idol, and is currently one of the highest rated shows on U.S. television, and each vocal contestant is given additional notability through music singles that are distributed worldwide via iTunes in addition to the millions of viewers that the show captures every day. The barometer of notability is whether people independent of the topic itself (or of its manufacturer, creator, author, inventor, or vendor) have actually considered the topic notable enough that they have written and published non-trivial works of their own that focus upon it – without incentive, promotion, or other influence by people connected to the topic matter. These reliable, independent sources of Ms. Elise have been cited on the bottom of her page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by StormyNights84 (talk • contribs) 22:08, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

::The people you're linking to have all actually released albums on major labels after competing on American Idol, which is not the same thing as being notable for competing on American Idol. The rule was, is and continues to be that the winner is the only person who can have an article just because they were on the show; anybody else still has to establish notability by actually getting signed to a label, releasing an album, having a hit single and/or garnering real press coverage in real media — i.e., the exact same way as any other musician. And your article about Ms. Elise, as currently written, does not cite any sources that are reliable and independent of the subject; it cites NBC (the network which airs The Voice, ergo not independent), her own iTunes profile (not independent) and blog entries (not reliable) — it does not contain a single reference to any media outlet that is notable and reliable and independent enough of the subject to meet our rules around what constitutes an acceptable source. Bearcat (talk) 02:28, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. — -- Cirt (talk) 17:16, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

:Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:44, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

:Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:02, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

  • Keep I'm voting for keep. She has a history before the reality show on TV, and even though she was eliminated from The Voice this week, I do not think we have heard the last of her. Skoen (talk) 00:59, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

:How about finding a reliable source or two, then? Notability isn't a judgement of whether we like the article topic or not — it's a judgement of whether the article is any good or not, and this simply is not an includable or properly referenced article as written. And we also keep or delete articles based on whether the topic has already established notability — not whether an individual user predicts that she'll become more notable in the future. Bearcat (talk) 02:51, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.