Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of IEEE milestones

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:{{la|List of IEEE milestones}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [https://tools.wmflabs.org/jackbot/snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_IEEE_milestones Stats])

:({{Find sources AFD|List of IEEE milestones}})

This almost entirely unreferenced list is a mess that fails WP:NLIST and worse, it seems to be full of OR/SYNTH. It is called a list of Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers milestones, and my first thought was to suggest a merge to Institute_of_Electrical_and_Electronics_Engineers#History, but due to the lack of references, there is little to merge. Much worse is the problem that the name is misleading, this seems to be more like a fork of Timeline of electrical and electronic engineering (not an article in the great shape, but that's for another time). IEEE was founded in 1963, but a big chunk of this list deals with things that happened before 1963, going as far back as Benjamin Franklin (not ambitious enough, why not date the first IEEE milestone to 2750 BC as the other list does?). Even for most later stuff there is no indication that many inventions and such are directly related to the IEEE as an organization (like the introduction of the Apple computer series). The list also ends in 1989 despite IEEE still existing and doing quite well. Bottom line, this is an improperly labelled fork of an existing article, with no referenced content to merge and not worth or redirecting due to misleading title. Suggesting WP:TNT treatment. PS. This seems to be a fork of https://ethw.org/Milestones:List_of_IEEE_Milestones (which also can raise some copuvio issues, depending on which list was first - ours or theirs?) and at best I can assume this is a badly thought name for 'milestones in the history of electrical and electical engineering according to IEEE', and hence a reminder - don't let engineeres name anything. Not sure if the IEEE wiki is RS, if it is, at best the external link section can be copied to the linked timeline article before this one goes under._{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:59, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:59, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Technology-related deletion discussions.   // Timothy :: talk  06:07, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Engineering-related deletion discussions.   // Timothy :: talk  06:07, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

• Delete per nom.   // Timothy :: talk  06:14, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
• Comment: I don't understand how the list can be considered “almost entirely unreferenced”, since it references https://ethw.org/Milestones:List_of_IEEE_Milestones, which is a complete list of the milestones. The list starts before the foundation of the IEEE because it’s not about milestones achieved by the IEEE, it’s about events declared by the IEEE to be milestones. The list ends at 1989 because that’s currently the most recent milestone - the IEEE doesn’t declare something to be a milestone until long after the event (e.g., the 1989 milestone was declared in 2017). --Zundark (talk) 07:08, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
• :Comment ethw.org is itself a wiki, so I'm not convinced it counts as a RS, as per WP:USERGENERATED. -Kj cheetham (talk) 10:11, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
• Keep. I agree with Zundark: the IEEE is an authoritative international organization, a reference to their list of milestones is a trusted source. You might compare this list with a list of World Heritage Sites, declared by the UN. Brienanni (talk) 08:00, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
• Merge to another IEEE article. Timeline of electrical and electronic engineering perhaps would be best, given this article seems to go beyond IEEE activities. -Kj cheetham (talk) 10:12, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
• :Regarding the earliest dates, from Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers#Origins, arguably can count some activities before 1963 as well. But still, this article goes beyond even that, though also AfD is WP:NOTCLEANUP... Still a large overlap with the main timeline article in any case. -Kj cheetham (talk) 10:21, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
• :Comment I misinterpretted what this list was (as did some others it seems). http://ieeemilestones.ethw.org/Milestone_Guidelines_and_How_to_Propose_a_Milestone clarifies it. I still don't believe it should merely repeat existing content though from another website. -Kj cheetham (talk) 17:24, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
• ::If it repeats the other copyrighted list exactly, we may have a copyvio problem. And if it doesn't then it becomes OR, as in - if this is a list of milestones as listed by IEEE, we can't go beyond it and milestones they didn't include... --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:54, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
• :: It does not copy the IEEE list exactly: the IEEE list has a one-paragraph description of each entry, which here is replaced by hyperlinks to other WP articles. The entries themselves are the same, but we also have lists of Nobel prizes which are in one-to-one correspondence with those from the Nobel Foundation... Brienanni (talk) 06:09, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
• ::: In my view, to make the list itself notable for Wikipedia it needs some significant independant coverage, i.e. not published by IEEE or the place being listed as a milestone. -Kj cheetham (talk) 13:58, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
• Keep. The IEEE is a very well-established professional engineering organization, and this list should exactly reflect their own "List of IEEE milestones". If you don't understand the IEEE or its history, I suggest that you study up. Daderot (talk) 15:15, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
• Merge (perhaps selectively) with Timeline of electrical and electronic engineering. That article is tagged that it has been cut down by removing offending material. Yes IEEE is a respectable professional body, but this is a history of its subject, not a history of IEEE. Timelines like this are often better for being unreferenced: their objective is as a navigation tool, pointing to a series of articles, which should of course be properly referneced. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:30, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
• Merge to Timeline of electrical and electronic engineering per above. Changed !vote from Delete   // Timothy :: talk  01:01, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

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:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.