Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Jewish American musicians

:{{la|List of Jewish American musicians}} – (View AfD)(View log)

This fails WP:NOT#DIR to the letter. Wikipedia is not a list KoshVorlon ".. We are ALL Kosh..." 18:06, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

• Comment - While I take no position on the deletion of this article, I would point out there are plenty of list pages on Wikipedia. There should be a better reason then that, for deletion. And that there are plenty of lists of people based on various different division. See Lists_of_peopleUcscottb4u 19:31, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
• Speedy keep - while acting in good faith, the nominator doesn't appear to be familiar with the system that this page is part of. This isn't a seperate list, it is part of Lists of Jews which was too large to be a single article. Lists of Jews is in turn part of Lists of people by nationality#By ethnicity, which is in turn part of Lists of people. It's part of an indexing system of all the articles on Wikipedia on people, in which people are presented by various descriptors to make them easier to find. Ethnicity has a strong precedent here, and people's ethnic heritage has been shown repeatedly throughout history to be a strong social force, and therefore it does not constitute a "loose association" in the context used in WP:NOT#DIR. Please, let's not introduce holes in the Lists of people collection. Thank you. The Transhumanist 22:35, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
• Strong Delete Not all of us think that there should be Lists of American Jews. I think they're a holdover from when Wikipedia was starting up and begging for articles, which led to Lists of Jewish American Philosophers, Jewish American Social and political scientists, Jewish American Linguists, Jewish American Psychologists, Jewish American Economists, Jewish American Historians, Jewish American Physicists, Jewish American Chemists, Jewish American Biologists and physicians, Jewish American Mathematicians, Jewish American Computer scientists, Jewish American Engineers, Jewish American Inventors, Jewish American Visual artists, Jewish American Architects, Jewish American Photographers, Jewish American Fashion designers, Jewish American Cartoonists, Jewish American Authors, Jewish American Poets, Jewish American Playwrights, Jewish American Journalists, Jewish American Composers, Jewish American Businesspeople, Jewish American Mobsters, Jewish American Entertainers, and, this one, Jewish American Musicians.
• Call me Auntie Semite, but what the hell does being Jewish have to do with being a musician? Should we have a list of Christian American musicians? If so, why? For what other reason than political correctness (or segregation) would you maintain a List of Jewish American Fashion Designers? It's an anachronism that needs to go. Mandsford 02:11, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per The Transhumanist and especially Mandsford. The "list of *ish/*an/*ese blanks" have to go. CRGreathouse (t | c) 02:43, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
• Delete, better served by categories. humblefool® 03:24, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
• Delete as redundant to categories. I'm sure there was a long discussion with a consensus that we were not going to be having lists of (foo) (bar) (baz)s. Stifle (talk) 20:57, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
• Strong Keep — Total bogwash. WP:NOT#DIR specifically mentions List of Jewish musicians as notable. This is a sub-section of that list and is nicely referenced. So I completely disagree with the justification for this AfD and the arguments above. — RJH (talk) 19:38, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
• Strong Delete The list has been sitting there for years without a single significant improvement. Why? Because relevant reliable sources are hardly available for a list like this. It's time for it to go. Seems like an irrelevant intersection of ethnicity/religion/self-identification with profession anyway. Oh, and it isn't nicely referenced. It's referenced obscurely, and most of the names are commented out for not having any easily-found sources. Bulldog123 20:08, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
• Comment - for a good review of Non-encyclopedic cross-categorizations, see the close at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of German Americans. In any event, Policy states that List of Jewish musicians is notable. See Non-encyclopedic cross-categorizations. I proposed that such information be removed from the policy here. -- Jreferee t/c 22:34, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
• Comment - Each of the following has been to AFD:
• List of Jewish American academics
• List of Jewish American artists
• List of Jewish American business figure
• List of Jewish American fashion designers
• List of Jewish American musicians
• List of Jewish American political figures
• List of Jewish American scientists
• List of Jewish American show business figures
• List of Jewish American sport figures
• List of Jewish American writers
• List of Jewish inventors

:-- Jreferee t/c 22:38, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

• Strong Delete - While there may be plenty of reasons to keep our cogent and well-researched American Jews article, this list is a non-encyclopedic cross-categorizations. Also, this list is a loose association and Wikipedia is not a directory of loosely associated items. The criterion for inclusion in the list is not defined sufficiently such that inclusion is too subjective. For example, how Jewish must one be to be on the list? To what extent does the notability of the person have to be attributed to the person being Jewish to be included in this list? To what extent does the notability of the person have to be attributed to the person being an American Jew to be included in this list? What level of relationship need there be between being Jewish and American to that of being a notable musician? Also, if this list were to be complete, it would be too big to be manageable. Further, this list encourages inclusion politics. There seemingly is an endless number of hyphenated Americans who are notable musicians and this list encourages others to seek representation of their hyphenated American group by posting their own hyphenated American musician list. Of course, then the other nations will want their own hyphenated musician lists. Wikipedia is on the wrong path with these hyphenated musician lists and AfD is a place to correct that. -- Jreferee t/c 22:57, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.