Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of rebel groups that control territory
:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was merge to List of active rebel groups. Black Kite (talk) 18:08, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
=[[List of rebel groups that control territory]]=
:{{la|List of rebel groups that control territory}} – (
:({{Find sources|List of rebel groups that control territory}})
An unnecessary duplication of List of active rebel groups. Created as a Content Fork, after a change in criteria at List of sovereign states and List of states with limited recognition. Following the addition of Bangsamoro Republik to those articles, a consensus developed that the criteria for inclusion needed to be reinforced to exclude groups that temporarily control land during a conflict but which are not regarded as 'sovereign states' in multiple verifiable sources. This article is an (unnecessary) attempt to bring together entities that would now be definitively excluded from those pages. In addition to duplicating an existing page, the criteria for inclusion are fairly arbitrary and unclear. Finally, there do not seem to be any reliable sources which collate these entities together into a list elsewhere. Although List of active rebel groups is currently a very poor list, this would still be a more appropriate article to develop this content in. Super Nintendo Chalmers (talk) 20:59, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:03, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:03, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
::This is not a duplicate of List of active rebel groups, and I didn't create it as a place to put rejects from List of sovereign states. In fact, there's little overlap with the latter list (or even rejects from that list), because most of the rebel groups listed here haven't declared independence (many are explicitly non-separatist). This is a topic that, as a Wikipedia reader, I've been wishing was covered for some time. I think the criteria are relatively clear: "controlling territory" is also one of the criteria in List of sovereign states. This is a list for entities which fit that criterion but have NOT declared independence and have not sought international recognition as separate sovereign states.
::If you feel like it would be better to include this content within List of active rebel groups, I have no problem with that, but I don't think it should be deleted without at least merging its content into that page and redesigning that page in such a way that it's easy to see which rebel groups have clear territorial control and which don't. If your concern is sources, they can be added, though almost all of the content is supported by the associated Wikipedia articles as linked to within the table.
::GeoEvan (talk) 16:38, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
:::Fair enough - the connection to List of sovereign states may be a coincidence. The criteria are arbitrary: what do you mean by 'rebel', 'control' and 'territory'? It's by no means clear. It doesn't duplicate content but does duplicate the aim of List of active rebel groups, which is what I meant. Of course sources are important, but it's not my particular concern here; it's an unnecessary, arbitrary duplication. Super Nintendo Chalmers (talk) 19:27, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
::::"Territory" and "control" are both used in the criteria for List of sovereign states. If you think they're arbitrary and unclear, perhaps you should take that up on the talk page for that article. Likewise, "rebel" is the implied criterion for List of active rebel groups. I'm not sure why you would argue that this list's criteria are unclear when there's already consensus to use them on the two other pages you linked to. GeoEvan (talk) 13:04, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
::::::In the context of sovereignty, they're well-established concepts discussed by multiple reliable sources. By contrast, on this list, they're an arbitrary collection of qualities which [https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=list+of+rebel+groups+that+control+territory&meta= have never been collected together elsewhere]. Super Nintendo Chalmers (talk) 19:32, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::::Is that a requirement for Wikipedia lists? That the specific criteria have been gathered together elsewhere? The concept of a rebel group controlling territory is definitely used regularly in individual cases. GeoEvan (talk) 21:44, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
- Either keep, or merge with list of active rebel groups, and reformat list of active rebel groups to fit the better designed format of this list. this list provides an important and easily comprehensible overview of notable rebel groups, which is similar to the aim of the other list, but the other list is comparatively poorly formatted, so this list being merged into the other list's format would be a loss, as this list is more informative and easier to read. However, due to similar aims, the other list can easily adopt this list's format, in which case a merger would be beneficial. --HighFlyingFish (talk) 19:52, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
:Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 03:17, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
- Merge with list of active rebel groups, per HighFlyingFish.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 12:44, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.