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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of songs that employ counterpoint

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Rjd0060 (talk) 23:21, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

=[[List of songs that employ counterpoint]]=

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:{{la|List of songs that employ counterpoint}} ([{{fullurl:List of songs that employ counterpoint|wpReason={{urlencode:AfD discussion: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of songs that employ counterpoint}}&action=delete}} delete]) – (View AfD)(View log)

Very, very short list of songs; unsourced and will probably be very hard to source. I searched for sources and could not find any reliable sources that stated that the songs use counterpoint. On top of that, this borders on original research -- at least in my opinion, the SHeDAISY example is only kind of sort of a counterpoint. With the lack of sources and the presence of original research in mind, I think that this list should be deleted. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 02:59, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

  • Delete. Counterpoint is probably a bit technical (or at least could use a more lay-friendly introduction) and the "popular culture" list it has is more illuminating (and could be worked into an expanded article better). The technique is so common as to remain chiefly unnoted when used. --Dhartung | Talk 07:49, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete: Wow, another Wikipedia list of everything. My sophomore music theory teacher used to say that virtually all non-monophonic music of any account has some counterpoint. At the very least, pretty much all rock songs will have counterpoint between the bass guitar part and the voice part--and zillions will have counterpoint between two or more voice parts. TheScotch (talk) 08:06, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom.  Esradekan Gibb  "Talk" 12:14, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete. There might be a bit more point to a list of songs that don't employ counterpoint, but a list of songs that employ counterpoint would be a list of almost every song. Klausness (talk) 14:41, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete After looking at the list, I don't think that the information is reliable enough for a merge. According to the article Counterpoint, "counterpoint involves the writing of musical lines which sound very different from each other, but are so contrived as to sound harmonious when played together"; the article doesn't mention harmony, but says "a second melody is added as an accompaniment to the first melody". Since there are no sources, I suspect this is a case of original research, where the author thought of songs, like Eleanor Rigby, that have two melodies and believed he/she was hearing counterpoint. Given the amount of study made of Eleanor Rigby and Paperback Writer and other Beatles songs, there's no excuse for not having a source. If there's a book that describes popular songs that employ counterpoint, or a CD compilation named "Now That's What I Call Counterpoint!", that's another matter. Mandsford (talk) 18:28, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete, weakly. There doesn't seem to be much by way of agreement as to what gets a song on the list. Any song based around an ostinato riff, with a sung melody that moves semi-independently, is using counterpoint of a sort. (Think of In A Gadda Da Vida) So is any song with harmony that uses a leading note. On the other hand, few popular songs contain full fledged fugato passages, although Paperback Writer may count. Then there are songs with contrapuntal passages in the accompaniment. (SOS by Abba comes to mind). I generally don't think that separate, published sources are strictly necessary for lists with obvious criteria for inclusion, but this seems to have problems of scope as well. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 19:00, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete - As a WP:LIST, it could work, however, there are issues: The main problem I have is that the concept of "counterpoint" in songs can be entirely subjective, whether it's keyboards and guitars, vox and guitars or any other variation on a similar theme. Ergo, this article would be insufferably difficult to find reliable sources for. Counterpoint itself is difficult enough. Wisdom89 (T / C) 19:16, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.