Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Make Up For Ever

:{{la|Make Up For Ever}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [http://toolserver.org/~snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Make_Up_For_Ever Stats])

:({{Find sources|Make Up For Ever}})

Article about one of possibly hundreds of brands directly or indirectly owned and/or retailed by LVMH. A CSD was declined after further sources were added. However, a close examination of all sources shows:

• [http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/07/us-lvmh-growth-analysis-idUSBRE99503820131007 Reuters] is not about the subject at all. 'Makeup Forever' has one of the shortest and most fleeting mentions possible which cannot possibly be regarded as a reference in any way.
• [http://www.sephora.com/contentStore/mediaContentTemplate.jsp?mediaId=10800104 Sephora], is a primary source about a chain of retail stores owned by LVMH. The mentions of Makeup Forever are only in the names of some of the products in the online store. Nothing here that could even be broadly construed as 3rd party articles about the subject.
• [http://articles.philly.com/2013-08-01/entertainment/40919009_1_makeup-artist-gina-brooke-creamy-eye-shadows philly.com] Blog contribution by fashion writer Elisabeth Wellington to a possibly not very notable local e-zine.
• [https://www.nigelbeauty.com/default.aspx Nigel beauty] another online store that sells Makeup Forever products. Does not in any way confer notabilty. May confirm that the brand exists, but any other mentions on that site are purely advertorial.

Fails WP:GNG, and/or WP:ORG (for the brand). Notability of this product is not inherited from the company(ies) that own(s) the brand or that owns the retail outlets that sell it. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:12, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fashion-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 11:37, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 11:37, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

• Delete. Not a shred of evidence of notability in the article, nor, as far as my searches have been able to find, anywhere else either. JamesBWatson (talk) 12:56, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
• Possible keep - My searches actually found some news articles like [http://www.vogue.it/en/beauty/beauty-news/2012/05/dany-sanz this] (Italian Vogue) and [http://www.style.com/beauty/beautifullives/042613_Dany_Sanz/ this] (Style.com/Condé Nast) and Google News searches found quite a bit such as [http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=0aVjAAAAIBAJ&sjid=biUMAAAAIBAJ&pg=1913,11312927&dq=make+up+forever+cosmetics+dany+sanz&hl=en this] (Google News archive of 2006 Philippine Inquirer with original article [http://www.inquirer.net/specialreports/mindandbody/facefactor/view.php?db=1&article=20061027-28954 here] and another from that newspaper [http://www.inquirer.net/specialreports/mindandbody/healthbeat/view.php?db=1&article=20081016-166782 here], [https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gl=us&tbm=nws&authuser=0&q=Make+Up+Forever+cosmetics+Dany+Sanz&oq=Make+Up+Forever+cosmetics+Dany+Sanz&gs_l=news-cc.3..43j43i53.557.5391.0.5506.43.4.0.35.0.1.168.497.0j4.4.0...0.0...1ac.1.-Vtdv0Of3-o#authuser=0&gl=us&hl=en&psj=1&q=Make+Up+Forever+cosmetics+Dany+Sanz&tbm=nws&tbs=ar:1 "How I Made It, Times Online"] (dead link but original article available for purchase [http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/business/article209671.ece here]), [http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=SB&p_theme=sb&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0F727D9602B17897&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM here] (Sacramento Bee article) and [http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/05/fashion/foundation-makeup-made-for-the-high-definition-era.html?_r=0 NY Times article] (from last year 2012). It seems that the person Dany Sanz is not notable as she is basically best known for this but it seems the company has received better coverage. I also found a brief article [http://www.elle.com/beauty/makeup-skin-care/new-color-palette-by-make-up-for-ever-340244 Elle] and I also found a three page news article [http://www.northjersey.com/news/230936281_Tending_to_Business__Make_Up_For_Ever.html here] from northjersey.com on November 6th. Google Books also found some [https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gl=us&tbm=nws&authuser=0&q=Make+Up+For+Ever+cosmetics+Dany+Sanz&oq=Make+Up+For+Ever+cosmetics+Dany+Sanz&gs_l=news-cc.3..43j43i53.595.6737.0.6878.42.5.0.34.0.0.335.805.2j1j1j1.5.0...0.0...1ac.1.wWrnfXjMpzE#authuser=0&gl=us&hl=en&psj=1&q=Make+Up+For+Ever+cosmetics+Dany+Sanz&tbm=bks results] although all of them are not great though there is one 2003 Elle edition. I also found a W Magazine interview [http://www.wmagazine.com/beauty/2011/09/beauty-insider-dany-sanz/ here]. It seems they have received considerable coverage in the Philippines and the United Arab Emirates (found 1 dead article). I tried searching at Glamour magazine but found nothing. I performed another Google News search [https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gl=us&tbm=nws&authuser=0&q=LVMH+Dany+Sanz+Make+Up+For+Ever&oq=LVMH+Dany+Sanz+Make+Up+For+Ever&gs_l=news-cc.3..43j43i53.168453.173042.0.173119.31.2.0.29.29.0.144.217.1j1.2.0...0.0...1ac.1.rWfyVd9ommk#authuser=0&gl=us&hl=en&psj=1&q=LVMH+Dany+Sanz+Make+Up+For+Ever&start=0&tbm=nws&tbs=ar:1 here] which not only found French articles, it also found [http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/fashion/paint-your-lips-in-moulin-rouge-1982593.html The Independent] (UK), [https://web.archive.org/web/20110505041833/http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/2007/nov/5/goodLife1.htm Manila Today] (PH again), [http://www.laprovence.com/article/elles-co/485114/make-up-for-ever-et-le-moulin-rouge-sassocient-pour-une-gamme-de-maquillage.html La Provence] (short French article), [http://www.philstar.com/ystyle/784836/y-style-picks PhilStar] (short article but mentions creation partnership with Japanese laboratories), [http://www.philstar.com/fashion-and-beauty/494812/make-kit-must-haves here] (a little promotional-sounding Q&A but does have info) and finally [http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/thestar/doc/437749743.html?FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=May%207,%201998&author=&pub=Toronto%20Star&edition=&startpage=&desc=Beker%20turns%20cameras%20on%20Canadian%20fashion this] (Toronto Star article that mentions Sanz worked with Givenchy, Vuitton and Christian Dior). Additionally, it seems the LVMH means Louis Vuitton Moet Hennessy so that may indicate some notability. In my last search, there are also some Italian articles but I don't speak Italian or French so I can't help with translating. The Philly.com article the nominator provided actually has some good info too, mentioning Sephora (a well-known cosmetics store has carried them since 2001). I'm still a little divided because (1) it doesn't seem they've received that much in-depth coverage but (2) there are still some articles from notable newspapers and magazines here. I would like to hear other users' comments whether this may be notable and, if so, should I begin improving. SwisterTwister talk 06:17, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

::Analysis of links:

::*[http://www.elle.com/beauty/makeup-skin-care/new-color-palette-by-make-up-for-ever-340244 Elle] The magazine itself is a reliable source, but this is a product listing with advertorial in its online store.

::*[http://www.northjersey.com/news/230936281_Tending_to_Business__Make_Up_For_Ever.html NorthJersey.com] Local news site. About th opening of a store.

::*[https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gl=us&tbm=nws&authuser=0&q=Make+Up+For+Ever+cosmetics+Dany+Sanz&oq=Make+Up+For+Ever+cosmetics+Dany+Sanz&gs_l=news-cc.3..43j43i53.595.6737.0.6878.42.5.0.34.0.0.335.805.2j1j1j1.5.0...0.0...1ac.1.wWrnfXjMpzE#authuser=0&gl=us&hl=en&psj=1&q=Make+Up+For+Ever+cosmetics+Dany+Sanz&tbm=bks Google search results page] Not admissible.

::*[http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/fashion/paint-your-lips-in-moulin-rouge-1982593.html The Independent] Reliable source. Possibly adds to notability but could be paid-for advertorial

::*[https://web.archive.org/web/20110505041833/http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/2007/nov/5/goodLife1.htm Manila Standard Today] needs reading to evaluate if this ads to notability

::*[http://www.laprovence.com/article/elles-co/485114/make-up-for-ever-et-le-moulin-rouge-sassocient-pour-une-gamme-de-maquillage.html LaProvence] regional news and general purpose web site. Possibly reliable. Article about the famous Moulin Rouge using the products.

::*[http://www.philstar.com/ystyle/784836/y-style-picks The Philppine Star] blog post/advertorial

::*[http://www.philstar.com/fashion-and-beauty/494812/make-kit-must-haves The Philppine Star] blog post

::*[http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/thestar/doc/437749743.html?FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=May%207,%201998&author=&pub=Toronto%20Star&edition=&startpage=&desc=Beker%20turns%20cameras%20on%20Canadian%20fashion Toronto Star Archives] Don't see any mention here.

::Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:56, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:48, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

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:Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 00:06, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

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• merge Not really appropriate for a separate article , but could be merged into a list of products. All fashion products get publicity. If they're a major product line, they should get an article, but I don;t see that here. DGG ( talk ) 04:29, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

::{{Ping|DGG}} What do you think about redirecting to LVMH#Subsidiaries? SwisterTwister talk 04:40, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

::Sure, but a line or two of content should be included. DGG ( talk ) 06:10, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

:::Very well, I'm willing to do it. SwisterTwister talk 03:49, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

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:Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 02:01, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

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:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.