Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Maredudd ap Ifan

{{AFD help}}

:{{la|Maredudd ap Ifan}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [https://tools.wmflabs.org/jackbot/snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Maredudd_ap_Ifan Stats])

:({{Find sources AFD|Maredudd ap Ifan}})

Another individual in genealogical line that was subject of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tomas ap Rhodri ab Owain Gwynedd. This wrongly contains a flag that it is unreferenced - the individual does receive passing reference in an article on the Wynn family in DWB, but this is insufficient to provide individual notability. The claimed title, "Head of the House of Aberffraw" was not a title, or even a recognized position. Fails WP:BIO, WP:NOTGENEALOGY, WP:NOTINHERITED. Agricolae (talk) 17:56, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Agricolae (talk) 17:58, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Wales-related deletion discussions. Agricolae (talk) 17:58, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

• Redirect -- The descent of the Gwydir family from the Princes of Wales is notable. The content that was at Tomas ap Rhodri ab Owain Gwynedd could be merged to House of Aberffraw, which could then be a redirect target. The alleged title "head of the house of Aberffraw" is misconceived, because primogeniture was not the Welsh inheritance practice until the Law in Wales Act (or Act of Union) 1536 applied English law to Wales. Peterkingiron (talk) 14:51, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

::I contest the notability of the descent (which was from the princes of Gwynedd - not all of Wales). It has not received significant coverage in independent reliable secondary sources. There was nothing on the Tomas ap Rhodri page that merited preservation. Anyhow, this is the wrong target. What we know and is undisputed is the relationship between this man and the Wynn family. What is claimed and is not undisputed is that they connected to a prince 400 years before. If it is to be redirected, and I don't see why it should be any more than we create a redirect for any other genealogical entry, then it should be toward a Wynn page and not toward a page on their elaborate claims, when it isn't even clear the subject was aware of the claim (if it had even been concocted yet). Agricolae (talk) 16:01, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

• Keep Redirect to Sir John Wynn, 1st Baronet#Works (and maybe Sir John's genealogical work deserves it's own article, but that is for another time) and Maredudd certainly needs mentioning in the Gwydyr Castle article if he isn't already. The info we have about Maredudd is sketchy and he is only briefly mentioned in Dictionary of Welsh Biography as part of a much wider article about the family. Sionk (talk) 09:06, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

::Changed 'vote' to Keep, per the other sources found below. If someone is still mentioned 500 years after their death, they're surely notable enough. Sionk (talk) 19:27, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

• Keep - has paragraph even in most recent Burkes (as Maredudd ap Ieuan ap Robert), which means he's been mentioned in probably every edition, notes he purchased and rebuilt Gwydyr Castle, bringing it into the possession of the Wynn family. I don't know anything about the House of Aberffraw, but there's a real problem because of the various spellings of his name. I think he's a significant cog in the lineage of several Welsh people and thus frequently referenced. —Мандичка^YO 😜 19:08, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Keep per Wikimandia. His involvement with Gwydyr Castle makes this more than genealogical and [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0mqJesC_NG4C&pg=PA160#v=onepage&q&f=false this], for example, suggests that he was of exceptional political importance and [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=OpUrAQAAIAAJ this], for example, says he had a lot of land (the main source of wealth and power at that time, when landowners had their own manorial courts and private armies). And he satisfies GNG. James500 (talk) 18:43, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.