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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mark Rippetoe

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Armbrust Talk to me about my editsreview 13:56, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

=[[Mark Rippetoe]]=

{{not a vote}}

:{{la|Mark Rippetoe}} – (View AfDView log)

:({{Find sources|Mark Rippetoe}})

Non-notable individual lacking GHits and GNEWS of substance. The article references are not (valid) secondary in nature. Fails WP:BIO and WP:AUTHOR. reddogsix (talk) 11:52, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:25, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:25, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of US-related deletion discussions. —Manicjedi (talk) (contribs) (templates) 21:08, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. —Manicjedi (talk) (contribs) (templates) 21:11, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

  • Keep Rippetoe literally wrote the book on powerlifting, even if he's mostly retired at this point. He's an important part of the powerlifting and crossfit culture, people (myself included) want to know more about him. Half of the sources in the article are secondary. (Full disclosure: I created the article, but have no actual vested interest in this subject.)—Manicjedi (talk) (contribs) (templates)

:*Comment - Let's look at the references. #1-Is not a valid independent reference-there is a good reason wiki-type sources are not valid. #2,3,4-This is not about him-these are articles he wrote. #5,6-Are books on Amazon. #7 Marginally secondary in nature. The interview is not considered secondary or independent. #8-Is a dead link #9-Does not mention the subject of the Wikipedia article. #10-Mentioned as part of the seminar teaching staff. #11-An interview is not considered secondary or independent. #12-Listing his name as part of the class teaching staff is not a strong secondary reference. #13-See item #1. #14 - Only a listing of his name and association with the gym. #15,16,17,18,19-Books on Amazon.

::He may or may be someone major in power lifting, but I do not see references that support WP:NOTABILITY in Wikipedia. reddogsix (talk) 19:24, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

::*Comment [http://www.scribd.com/doc/3483857/In-the-Trenches-An-Interview-With-Mark-Rippetoe-by-Matt-Reynolds Interview], [http://www.charlespoliquin.com/Blog/tabid/130/EntryId/396/Five-Valuable-Strength-Lessons-From-Mark-Rippetoe.aspx Secondary], [http://motorhomediaries.com/mark-rippetoe-libertarian-gym-owner-chats-with-motorhome-diaries/ Interview], [http://www.npr.org/blogs/wwrd/2009/01/what_would_rob_do_to_lose_10_p.html Inteviewed on NPR]. Here's 4 from the first 2 pages of google for "Mark Rippetoe". Edit: I've integrated these into the article, I will add more as well. (See additional comment below.—Manicjedi (talk) (contribs) (templates) 20:47, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

  • Keep Rippetoe has written the only book available that provides barbell instruction in detail. This book has sold over 80,000 copies in its second edition all over the world, with sales rank at Amazon as best in its category, averaging ~#600 of all books sold. The third edition was recently released and is in the process of distribution. As an active strength training coach and writer, Rippetoe continues to make contributions that will be added to complete this page and increase its importance to the user. Barbell/strength training may appear to be a niche sport, however improving strength is the foundation for all sports and basic health and is extremely important to both the athletic and general population. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Montster58 (talk • contribs) 19:12, 26 November 2011 (UTC) — Montster58 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

:*Comment - None of this meets the notability criteria in either WP:AUTHOR or WP:BIO.reddogsix (talk) 19:27, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

::*Comment I've addressed WP:AUTHOR and WP:ACADEMIC points met in a comment below, others have addressed more generic WP:BIO concerns. —siroχo 18:33, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

  • Keep - if you're gonna have any one single weightlifting author on Wikipedia, this guy is it. I dare you to find someone with more internet/gym name recognition saturation than this guy. Honestly, if he is not notable, then the policy needs a change. Pär Larsson (talk) 20:21, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
  • Comment I've added several sources in order to address the various issues raised:

:WP:BIO:

A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has been the subject of multiple published secondary sources which are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject.

:::* Rob Sachs, [http://www.npr.org/blogs/wwrd/2009/01/what_would_rob_do_to_lose_10_p.html What Would Rob Do to Lose 10 Pounds in 2009?], 2009. Interview on NPR.

:::* Pete Eyre, [http://motorhomediaries.com/mark-rippetoe-libertarian-gym-owner-chats-with-motorhome-diaries/ Mark Rippetoe, libertarian Gym Owner, Chats with Motorhome Diaries] (2009).

:::* Matt Reynolds, [http://www.scribd.com/doc/3483857/In-the-Trenches-An-Interview-With-Mark-Rippetoe-by-Matt-Reynolds In the Trenches - An Interview With Mark Rippetoe]

:::* Charles Staley, [http://staleytraining.com/store/interviews-and-audios/masterminds-volume2.htm Mark Rippetoe: Starting Strength], [http://www.staleytraining.com/media/rippetoe.mp3 mp3], 2008. Audio interview with Mark Rippetoe.

:::* Chris Colucci, [http://www.t-nation.com/portal_includes/articles/2008/08-146-training.html Starting Strength: An Interview with Mark Rippetoe], 2009. T-nation interview with Mark Rippetoe.

:::* Charles Poliquin, [http://www.charlespoliquin.com/Blog/tabid/130/EntryId/396/Five-Valuable-Strength-Lessons-From-Mark-Rippetoe.aspx Five Valuable Strength Lessons From Mark Rippetoe], 2011.

:WP:AUTHOR:

People are likely to be notable if they meet any of the following standards... 1. The person is regarded as an important figure. 2. The person is known for originating a significant new concept, theory or technique.

:::* The above sources indicate that he is (1) regarded as an important figure (5 raving interviews, including one on NPR, one of the most independant and general a sources there is); and that (2) he is known for originating the concept/theory/technique of the 5x5 incremental weight training program, colloquially[http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/training/70554-rippetoes-program.html][http://tracker.dailyburn.com/workout_programs/4631][http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/blog_sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_alpha/rippetoes_programming][http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/getting-started/20529-compendium-mark-rippetoes-novice-intermediate-program-templates.html][http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101003201628AAskpGo][http://www.hagrin.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1876] referred to as "Rippetoes" or the "Rippetoe Program". —Manicjedi (talk) (contribs) (templates) 20:46, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

  • weak keep I am not familiar with most of the sources, and cannot evaluate the journals in this field--except that I do know that one of the ones in which he published, Journal of exercise physiology, is a first-rate widely known title. Examining WorldCat, I see Strength and conditioning journal is held in almost 300 academic libraries, so it probably has a good reputation also. DGG ( talk ) 23:20, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
  • Keep Rippetoe is author of multiple books which sell (no small achievement), and a genuine populariser and evangelist for weightlifting. There are 350,000+ hits for him on Google as I write. He is NOT a self-promoter: observe that he hasn't tried to write his own page. I recognise that weight-lifting is a difficult area for Wikipedia: Reliable Sources are difficult to identify for someone who isn't aware of the field, but really, it would be better for contributors to this discussion to be lifters rather than wiki-lawyers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slowjoe17 (talk • contribs) 18:54, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
  • Keep I first heard about Mark Rippetoe through NPR in 2009. http://www.npr.org/blogs/wwrd/2009/01/what_would_rob_do_to_lose_10_p.html His relative lack of mention in mainstream media should be irrelevant next to the fact that he is considered one of the premier strength coaches in the country. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.38.134.155 (talk) 05:21, 28 November 2011 (UTC) — 07.38.134.155 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • Keep Rippetoe's books have recently become a standard source in the strength training literature ([http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-2nd-Mark-Rippetoe/dp/0976805421/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322467004&sr=1-1 This one, in particular, is well-regarded]). In fact, many Wiki articles are based on and refer to his work directly; see the "References" sections here, here, and here. I believe he is relevant enough to have his biography on Wikipedia, although I am very, very concerned about the quality of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Linuxgoku1488 (talk • contribs) 08:17, 28 November 2011 (UTC) — Linuxgoku1488 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • Keep. Firstly, as an author and instructor, subject demonstrates "The person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by peers or successors", "The person is known for originating a significant new concept, theory or technique" from WP:AUTHOR. Additionally, given subject's publication in academic journals and influence the subject demonstrates based on these publications, "1. The person's research has made significant impact in their scholarly discipline, broadly construed, as demonstrated by independent reliable sources." and "7. The person has made substantial impact outside academia in their academic capacity." from WP:ACADEMIC. —siroχo 17:13, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
  • Keep. Mark Rippetoe is a bestselling author and well-known coach in his field (barbell-based strength training) and in the CrossFit community. His book Starting Strength is a [http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/starting_strength very influential beginner's guide] for those lifting for strength or who are interested in competing in powerlifting. Fans of his work have even created a [http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Mark_Rippetoe Wiki dedicated to it]. There is no reason to delete this article, although I believe it does require significant rewriting and more references to the influential online publications serving the fitness community. --Nenuphar11 (talk) 00:31, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
  • Keep. TBH, this article jumps out at me as blatant spam. It's chock-full of "references" which do not meet our guidelines for reliable sources. Hopefully in time this can be corrected, as the subject does appear to (minimally, at least) meet our general notability guidelines. coccyx bloccyx(toccyx) 23:16, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.