Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Morwalela Seema

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:{{la|Morwalela Seema}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [https://tools.wmflabs.org/jackbot/snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Morwalela_Seema Stats])

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Fails WP:NFOOTY Sulfurboy (talk) 02:52, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 03:03, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 03:03, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 19:52, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

• Keep - contrary to what the nominator says, this article passes WP:NFOOTBALL, having played for Botswana at internaional level per [https://www.sundaystandard.info/the-legend-that-is-morwalela-pro-seema/ this]. GiantSnowman 19:55, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
• :{{u|GiantSnowman}}, All I read in that article is his involvement in an international friendly between Botswana and Swaziland, but not part of a international match at a confederation level. Am I missing something? I'm more than happy to withdraw if someone can point to what I'm missing. Sulfurboy (talk) 21:32, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

::Playing in an international friendly is sufficient for WP:NFOOTBALL. The source also confirms he played in many further international matches - not withstanding the GNG significant coverage he meets from that source. GiantSnowman 22:06, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

:::{{u|GiantSnowman}}, I guess I'm confused or maybe reading it wrong. Can you point me to where in the WP:FOOTY policy it states that non-notable international friendlies would qualify someone? You may have something going with WP:GNG, but I'm not seeing any other articles that cover the subject (at least not in a non-WP:ROUNTINE manner) and the one linked seems to be very much a fluff piece and relies heavily on statements by the subject making it borderline primary in my opinion. I'd love to save this article, but I'm simply not seeing anything. Sulfurboy (talk) 22:48, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

::::Also, I promise I'm not trying to be confrontational here or anything, I just want to make sure I'm not misinterpreting something WP:NFOOTY, because as I understood it that the international matches have to be competitive meaning friendlies wouldn't be applicable. Sulfurboy (talk) 22:59, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

• Keep As {{u|GiantSnowman}} said, he does in fact pass WP:NFOOTY as friendlies are (generally) considered Tier 1 International Matches by FIFA. Smartyllama (talk) 13:46, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
• :{{u|Smartyllama}}, What then is the purpose of distinguishing "competitive" international matches in the policy if all international matches count? Was there a previous discussion or clarification of the policy? Again, as I said above, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to find out where this is clearly outlined. The other issue would be is I'm not seeing any official record of these games other than primary mentions in the article. We have no way of confirming (so far) that these were sanctioned by FIFA or if these players were even officially representing their countries. If everyone wants to say any international friendly is enough to pass NFOOTY, fine. But there needs to be some sort of non-primary source to support it. Sulfurboy (talk) 14:41, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
• :: Competing in a "competitive international match" is a separate way one can earn notability, aside from competing in a Tier I international match. The guideline is quite clear about that. This means that someone who competes in a CONCACAF Gold Cup match between Martinique and Haiti passes NFOOTY even though Martinique is not a FIFA member and as such it is not a Tier I International Match. However, someone who only competed in a friendly between Martinique and Haiti would NOT pass NFOOTY, as that is not a Tier I International Match, nor is it a competitive international match. As Botswana and Swaziland are both FIFA members, a friendly between them is considered a Tier I International Match under FIFA rules. I don't know how the guideline can be any clearer that all Tier I International Matches count, or why discussion would be required to make sure it says what it clearly says. Smartyllama (talk) 14:45, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
• :::{{u|Smartyllama}}, Thanks for clearing that up. That still leaves the issue about a lack of a non-primary source confirming this match in fact happened, that it was sanctioned, and was actually endorsed by the player's mother countries. Sulfurboy (talk) 14:54, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
• :::: The Sunday Standard seems to be a major newspaper. I have no concerns about its reliability. There are not going to be many online sources for a match that long ago. This is fine. Smartyllama (talk) 15:52, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
• ::::: Seems pretty likely to meet GNG given that the one source in the article discusses them in significant detail, and regards him so highly decades later. But how does a match against Swaziland meet NFOOTY? [http://www.eloratings.net/Botswana ELO rankings] do incorporate non-FIFA matches - such as Martinique - but says the first match against Swaziland was not until 1986, after this player apparently retired! Nfitz (talk) 22:09, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
• Keep There's one excellent GNG source in the article. The players hasn't played in about 35 years, and I can't even find online Botswanan sources anywhere close to that old. There's be huge BIAS if we eliminated such articles. Nfitz (talk) 22:55, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
• Keep passes WP:NFOOTBALL.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 05:41, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.