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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Moses Powell

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. —Darkwind (talk) 07:59, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

=[[Moses Powell]]=

:{{la|Moses Powell}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [http://toolserver.org/~snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Moses_Powell Stats])

:({{Find sources|Moses Powell}})

This biography has no independent reliable sources, they're all from his organization. As for notability, he doesn't pass WP:MANOTE or WP:GNG. The style he created was deleted at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sanuces Ryu.Mdtemp (talk) 21:20, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 21:45, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 21:45, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 21:46, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

  • Keep There seem to be lots of [https://www.google.com/search?q=moses+powell+martial+arts&tbm=bks&tbo=1 sources] on Google Books recognizing this individual as a leader ("legend") in his field. Candleabracadabra (talk) 23:06, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

:Comment Although neither of the schools he founded are notable the individual can certainly be considered a pioneer in the field. It would help if secondary/reliable references were introduced into the article.Peter Rehse (talk) 11:28, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

  • Delete I looked at the books in the Google search done by Candleabracadabra. The Black Belt magazine listings are all in the ads section under tapes to buy. The other book mentions I checked were passing mentions, often in a list of names. I didn't see any significant reliable independent coverage of him that would allow him to pass WP:GNG. 204.126.132.231 (talk) 20:11, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

::WHat about [http://books.google.com/books?id=EtdH-XbjnRAC&pg=PT127&dq=moses+powell+martial+arts&hl=en&sa=X&ei=of8oUq3PFZDs9ASyvoCICg&ved=0CDwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=moses%20powell%20martial%20arts&f=false this] book source that has an entire section about him? And what about [books.google.com/books?isbn=0807050113 this] one noting he was the first African American to perform this craft in front of the UN? How common is that type of invitation? And what about sources such as [books.google.com/books?isbn=0275981533 this] one noting that he was a grandmaster and influential teacher? [books.google.com/books?isbn=0822381176 this] source and [books.google.com/books?isbn=1598842439 this] source are examples of the many books discussing his historical significance. Candleabracadabra (talk) 22:24, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

::I would also note that some of the book sources such as [Martial Arts of the World: An Encyclopedia of History and ... - Page 628] are Encyclopedia's of Martial Arts. And here's another [Black Diaspora - Volume 19 - Page 60] [books.google.com/books?id=37EOAQAAMAAJ source] where this this individual is noted as being significant and influential. Candleabracadabra (talk) 22:32, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

:::That "entire section" consists of 5 sentences: 1 says he taught a lot of students and 4 are about the non-notable art he founded (and 2 of those are about the name he made up). His influence was a student quoted as saying "he was the father I never had"--heartwarming, but not notable. Still seems to be passing mentions.Mdtemp (talk) 19:51, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

::::His being covered in an encyclopedia on martial arts established his significance. If the form he established isn't independently notable I have no oppostition to it being included in his article. That he influenced other notable persons also establishes his significance. Candleabracadabra (talk) 21:32, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::I would strongly encourage you to add some these references to the article. Papaursa (talk) 19:03, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

  • Keep While I agree that almost all of the references I looked at are arguably "passing mentions", the sheer number of them (and enough independent ones) seems enough to show he meets WP:GNG. Papaursa (talk) 19:03, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
  • comment - I am the writer of this article. I haven't put much time into it but there are a ton of sources on him. If you choose to delete the article can you please put in in userspace. [http://www.shijouryu.com/wordpress/?page_id=86] [http://www.usadojo.com/biographies/moses-powell.htm] [http://www.moderncombatjujutsu.com/Lineage-of-Modern-Combat.html] [http://www.thesuperiormartialartist.com/?p=62] [http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_1870.shtml] CrazyAces489 (talk) 20:10, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

::I would suggest that when you create an article, you actually add sources to it. Relying on other editors to source your article strikes me as poor manners. Papaursa (talk) 19:49, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

:Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 04:14, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.