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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Princess Alexandra of Greece

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Alexandra of Greece and Denmark. we have a winner Spartaz Humbug! 21:12, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

=[[Princess Alexandra of Greece]]=

:{{la|Princess Alexandra of Greece}} – (View AfDView log)

:({{Find sources|Princess Alexandra of Greece}})

I tagged this article for questionable notability in June, and no sources have been added since then. I meant to nominate it much earlier but forgot about it until it was vandalised(?) today and I realised that the correct(?) information is as poorly sourced as the vandalism. (Her alleged children were born after the sources appeared.) This woman is virtually unknown. Apparently, her only claim to notability is that for the first five years of her life she was a niece(?) of the last reigning king of Greece, who was deposed in 1973. I do not think that this is sufficient. In Wikipedia, subjects are not considered inherently notable for such purely formal reasons. The only sources for her appear to be genealogical lists. Note that research on this woman is a bit tricky because there are several Alexandras in her family. Hans Adler 18:18, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

:Relevant background: Articles on one son and several grandchildren of the last Greek king were deleted this year after various separate AfDs. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Prince Philippos of Greece and Denmark (2nd nomination) for the son and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Princess Maria-Olympia of Greece and Denmark for a grand daughter and links to her siblings' AfDs. Hans Adler 18:27, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

  • Redirect to Alexandra of Yugoslavia. There have been several people with this title. The most notable of these is the woman that married King Peter of Yugoslavia and she is known by this title in hundreds, perhaps thousands of sources. There was also another such princess in Victorian times and then there's the modern one too. So, we can redirect per our editing policy, maintaining the edit history in case we want to flesh out these various bios. Europe is in flux again, especially Greece, and so we should keep our options open. Warden (talk) 19:15, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:23, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

:Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Steven Zhang The clock is ticking.... 00:03, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

  • Weak keep. [http://www.life.com/celebrity-pictures/74369830/the-fragrance-foundation-presents-the-35th-annual-fifi-awards-arrivals Life.com] considers her a celebrity and so does [http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/m_LEGxLuExY/2011+New+York+City+Opera+Fall+Gala/a2oy_yXur0P Getty Images]. She is also mentioned in [https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&biw=1280&bih=632&tbm=bks&q=%22Alexandra+de+Gr%C3%A8ce+%28la+fille+de+Michel+et+Marina+de+Gr%C3%A8ce%22+Mirzayants&oq=%22Alexandra+de+Gr%C3%A8ce+%28la+fille+de+Michel+et+Marina+de+Gr%C3%A8ce%22+Mirzayants&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=1885l2130l0l2310l2l2l0l1l0l0l163l163l0.1l1l0 a french book about dresses], which calls her wedding "un grand mariage". Razvan Socol (talk) 06:39, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

:Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 06:52, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  • Relisting comment. Its obvious that unless this is sourced the policy argument is delete. Can we focus on that please? Greece isn't Yugoslavia so a redirect there seems slightly prone to creating a nationalist furore. Some improvement in the discussion would assist the closing admin. Spartaz Humbug! 06:54, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

:* The article has sources and the facts do not seem to be in dispute. WP:IDONTLIKEIT is not a policy-based argument nor is an appeal to Balkan nationalism. This title is used by hundreds of sources and so ought to lead somewhere rather than being a redlink. Our actual policy is to preserve information where we can. Warden (talk) 09:27, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  • Redirect and Merge to Alexandra of Yugoslavia - there isn't very much here, but there are citations to support a small section in that other article. Agree with nom that we neither have enough for a stand-alone article, nor want to start a fuss. Merge. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:57, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

:: I oppose to redirecting to Alexandra of Yugoslavia, because we are talking about two different persons. Both are great-granddaughters of George I of Greece, but Alexandra of Yugoslavia (born 1921) is the granddaughter of Constantine I, King of the Hellenes, whereas Princess Alexandra of Greece (born 1968) is the granddaughter of Prince Christopher of Greece and Denmark. Obviously, the first is more notable (because she was also the wife of the last King of Yugoslavia, Peter II of Yugoslavia), but if the later is not notable enough for her own article, we could redirect to the Marriage and children section in the article about Prince Michael of Greece and Denmark (her father), not to a second-cousin who happens to have the same name. Think about all the confusion we would create in the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AWhatLinksHere&target=Princess+Alexandra+of+Greece&namespace=0 articles which link to Princess Alexandra of Greece]. Razvan Socol (talk) 11:34, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

  • Keep Redirecting is ridiculous - as stated, these are completely different people. The problems with the article (sources etc) can all be solved, but, more importantly, being a bad article is not generally a reason for deletion. It is a spur to improvement. I don't think there's any doubt that this woman is notable - the niece of a monarch is certainly notable. (Or do we want to delete the nieces and nephews of Elizabeth II?) Incidentally, the nominator states that "her only claim to notability is that for the first five years of her life she was a niece(?) of the last reigning king of Greece". Er, no, she is still his niece and always will be!!! Emeraude (talk) 17:22, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
  • :No, an article on a living person can not be improved when there are zero reliable sources on the person. And please don't use such atrociously bad rhetorics as "I don't think there's any doubt that this woman is notable - the niece of a monarch is certainly notable. (Or do we want to delete the nieces and nephews of Elizabeth II?)" Notability is a technical term in Wikipedia, and contrary to the occasional assertions by royalty stamp collectors, notability is not inherited, not even by nieces, and there is not a single guideline that says that a former king's niece (that's what she is now, although for the first five years of her life she was a reigning king's niece) is notable even when she is unknown outside telephone directories and similar works. Hans Adler 17:59, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Replace with disambiguation page to other notable parties and includes a (non-link) note on this particular person, since simply being the neice of someone important is not WP:Notability. If we scale the concept out to other notable people the result would be patently absurd. I would also assert that redirecting to another article where there is obvious ambiguity to be had is an inferior solution to using a disambiguation page (or at least redirecting to one appropriate). -Rushyo Talk 17:57, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Redirect to Alexandra of Greece and Denmark which is already a disambiguation page for the various people called Princess Alexandra of Greece. - dwc lr (talk) 13:56, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
  • :Thanks for finding what is in retrospect the obvious solution. I agree with that. Hans Adler 14:04, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Redirect to Alexandra of Greece and Denmark per DWC LR above. Deor (talk) 19:10, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.