Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Prussian nationalism

:{{la|Prussian nationalism}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [http://toolserver.org/~snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Prussian_nationalism Stats])

:({{Find sources|Prussian nationalism}})

The Prussian state no longer exists. Prussia became part of the German Empire, which Prussia dominated. The Prussian influence on German nationalism is already discussed in the article with that name. Thus, this newly created page does not satisfy Wikipedia's notability guidelines, since a standalone page for the subject is not required.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Herzen (talk • contribs)

• Keep The continuing existance of a Prussian state is irrelevant - the question for Wikipedia is whether the topic was notable at the time. The article quotes a seemingly reliable source for saying that it was seen as distinct from, and to a degree conflicting with, German nationalism. That is rather borne out by the German nationalism article. I do not think that there are grounds for deletion here, and discussion of Prussian motives and aspirations in the other article might well distort it (what about the other actors) but that is a matter for editing. My view is that the present article actually needs expansion, because there is no explanation of Prussian national ideals for example. --AJHingston (talk) 09:30, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
• Keep A notable topic. A quick literature review picks up work such as:

:*Levinger, Matthew. Enlightened Nationalism: The Transformation of Prussian Political Culture, 1806-1848. Oxford University Press, USA, 2002. (A book)

:*Simon, Walter M. "Variations in nationalism during the Great Reform Period in Prussia." The American Historical Review (1954): 305-321. (Scholarly journal article)

:There's also a lot just on Hegel and the Prussian state, with his view that Prussia was the highest development of human history.[http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=5302984][http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/25610652?uid=3738032&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21101667310953][http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=83PXlSBuLXgC&lpg=PA115&ots=qtH-U0zV7E&dq=hegel%20prussia&pg=PA115#v=onepage&q=hegel%20prussia&f=false] --Colapeninsula (talk) 11:02, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

• Comment. I think it's probably something worth having something about Prussian nationalism, especially in a historic context; although in turn it is open to debate whether it's something that needs to be treated separately as a standalone concept with its own page outside of the pages on Prussia itself and German Unification. However, it's worth highlighting that the editor who created this page has created or expanded several similar ones of even more debatable worth based on other "sub-German" nationalisms – Rhenish nationalism, Bavarian nationalism, Bavarians etc – all based primarily on one source, James Minahan, whose credentials remain unclear. Are all these really nationalisms as commonly understood, as opposed to regional sub-national identities? They've also been active inserting a boilerplate repetitive first-sentence formulation to a large number of nationalism pages: "XX-ian nationalism is the nationalism that asserts that XX-ians are a nation and promotes the cultural unity of XX-ians". N-HH talk/edits 11:25, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

::And now, Swabian nationalism. Is there really such a thing? It's slightly unfortunate that the most valid example – and the one that at least acknowledged its historic nature through the opening words "Prussian nationalism was ... " was the one actually put up for deletion. N-HH talk/edits 18:04, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

:::There is such a thing, it is sourced and the source describes its development. The source is published by a reliable publishing organization, Greenwood Publishing Group. If you do not trust the source you need to present why the source should not be trusted.--R-41 (talk) 19:48, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

• Keep. It is a notable topic, it is discussed in its own section in Motyl's encyclopedia on nationalism used in this article, and as per the other comments in favour of keeping it, above.--R-41 (talk) 14:55, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
• Speedy Keep - Oh, yeah, this is a huge encyclopedic topic. Here's just one title of what is undoubtedly a voluminous scholarly literature: Matthew Levinger, Enlightened Nationalism : The Transformation of Prussian Political Culture, 1806-1848. Oxford University Press, 2000. Carrite (talk) 16:43, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

:: Here's a couple more with a view to putting this to bed early: Eugene Newton Anderson, Nationalism and the Cultural Crisis in Prussia, 1806-1815. Hagen Schulze, The Course of German Nationalism: From Frederick the Great to Bismarck 1763-1867. Carrite (talk) 16:50, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

• Keep per above, notable topic.--Staberinde (talk) 17:00, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
• Obvious keep So it doesn't exist now, so what? Doesn't mean it never did and notability is not temporary. Keresaspa (talk) 19:29, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
• Speedy keep - notable topic, just because Prussia is no longer a country doesn't make this less notable. Notability is not temporary. Plenty of sources stated here to show notability, suggest snow close/speedy close. Lukeno94 (talk) 21:39, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.