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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ragan Fox

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to List of Big Brother 12 HouseGuests (U.S.). King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 03:28, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

=[[Ragan Fox]]=

:{{la|Ragan Fox}} – (View AfDView log)

:({{Find sources|Ragan Fox}})

I am posting this on behalf of an IP editor, who believes the subject does not pass notability guidelines.

Personally, I don't see how it passes our notability guidelines. This is really a puff piece, and the subject--IMO--is not notable as a poet, a professor, a web personality, or anything else. I guess I vote delete. Drmies (talk) 16:02, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

  • Redirect per practice to the horrid article List of Big Brother 12 HouseGuests (U.S.). We really should take action about the unacceptable practice of allowing such reality TV articles to include such extensive unsourced/primary-sourced BLP content. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 17:00, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  • Come on now, that's typical deletionist BLP clamoring. It has only fourteen BLPs in it, wonderfully verified by two iron-clad references (only one of which is a Facebook page). Drmies (talk) 18:00, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
  • I'm tempted to follow up on your suggestion but will let this run its course. Thanks. Drmies (talk) 18:04, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. — — alf.laylah.wa.laylah (talk) 17:28, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. — — alf.laylah.wa.laylah (talk) 17:28, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

  • Strong Keep This article is alright in WP:BIO. He is more than a reality tv star. He is an author/talk show host. ☼Phrasia☼ (talk) 05:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  • Um he is a "talk show host" for Big Brother, a show that he didn't win, which is his only claim to fame. Non-winners do not traditionally get articles unless they establish their fame OUTSIDE of their reality TV show, which he hasn't done. If he gets an article, every community college professor in the country should get one. Just because you are a fan of someone does not mean you should say Keep when wikipedia guidelines are not followed. Delete 67.246.14.41 (talk) 08:52, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
  • Um, excuse me. Where have I said I was a fan of the article's subject. In fact, I really don't care for this person, but that doesn't change the fact that he is notable. His talk show/author fame was way before big brother. Yes he is a college professor, but she has published many books, advocated slam poetry for lgbt rights. Along with being a player on big brother, I think I rest my case. ☼Phrasia☼ (talk) 07:01, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
  • Delete. This is a "15 minutes of fame" puff piece. No claim w.r.t WP:PROF. Sources are mostly non-specific, blogs, or obscure publications. Uncontroversial delete. Thanks, Agricola44 (talk) 17:03, 28 September 2011 (UTC).
  • Keep. This article was around long before he did Big Brother. Before doing a reality show, he was one of the pioneers of podcasting; an individual finalist at the National Poetry Slam; the author of two books; had a radio show on Sirius; is the subject of articles in Out Magazine and Genre Magazine; and a prolific author in ethnography. For the record, he isn’t a community college professor. He’s a tenured professor at California State University, and has a lengthy publication record: check out Google Scholar. His contributions to performance and poetry have been noted in university press books and the subject of scholarly debates in journals like Text and Performance Quarterly. The sources aren’t “non-specific, blogs, and obscure.” Many of the references in the article are from national publications and date significantly further back than 2010, when he participated on Big Brother. If anything, his article wasn’t written because he was on Big Brother; quite the opposite, the only reason why the article is being considered for deletion is because he did the reality show. Keep. Keep. Keep. Performativity (talk) 18:38, 28 September 2011 (UTC).— Performativity (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

:::Comment'. To me the fact that this article slid under the radar for 6 years without the AFD coming up only demonstrates how non-notable the subject matter is. 67.246.14.41 (talk) 23:32, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

:::Comment. It's irrelevant whether the person is tenured or not (see WP:PROF), although "for the record", Fox is evidently not tenured (per [http://www.csulb.edu/search/ Calstate directory search]) which lists him as an assistant professor...unless, of course, you're somehow privy to information that hasn't yet been made public. Most of the references are demonstrably not WP:RS, for example:

::::*non-specific: [http://austinslam.com/newsite/?name=Teams ref 3] is the Austin poetry slam front-page and makes no mention of Fox

::::*blogs: [http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/popwrap/best_summer_tv_XLPwvafnwaHk61OfQRgmaL?photo_num=6 refs 10 and 11] are indeed blogs – the word "blog" is actually in the URLs

::::*obscure: the "Phoenix New Times" is a local, free glossy Alternative newspaper, ref 8 seems to be the subject's thesis (per his own [http://ragan.wordpress.com/foxy-vita/ blog]), refs 5-7 are dead links, etc.

:::So, yes, I think those terms aptly describe almost all the sources currently in the article. I have checked sources in GS and I do not see the same results as you claim to see. GS shows an h-index of only 2 (about what you'd expect for asst prof level) and a few [http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=7vwATBOcXQoC&oi=fnd&pg=PA1&dq=%22Ragan+Fox%22&ots=KTId9fe2uq&sig=Sc3bjbgRKyNiePE1VegmNvK5_oI#v=onepage&q=%22Ragan%20Fox%22&f=false books] that make a trivial mention of him. All of these findings show a remarkably average impact. Agricola44 (talk) 15:09, 29 September 2011 (UTC).

::::Just as a note, I think blogs associated with traditional media outlets (i.e. the NY Times, NY Post, etc.) are generally considered reliable sources. However I'm on the fence whether or not he's notable enough for an article. At the very least the article needs to be gone through with pruning shears. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:04, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

:Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 21:22, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

  • Delete. Nobody, fails WP:GNG - DonCalo (talk) 23:40, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
  • Delete or redirect to the cast list. Received various WP:ROUTINE mentions related to reality TV appearance, plus a very small echo in the blogosphere for the same reason. Seems to have received virtually no attention in the RS realm for poetry or other efforts. --Hobbes Goodyear (talk) 16:40, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.