Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Raja Hathi Singh sonkh
:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to Saunkh. Consensus is pretty clear that in this form the topic does not meet notability guidelines even if it's not a hoax. There is apparently some wiggle room here so going for a redirect in lieu of deletion, and going for a redirect over draftification because - this being a historical person rather than an upcoming company/person or upcoming whatever - it does not seem like its notability status would change within a timeframe short enough to justify putting the article into draftspace. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 17:49, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
=[[:Raja Hathi Singh sonkh]]=
:{{la|Raja Hathi Singh sonkh}} – (
:({{Find sources AFD|Raja Hathi Singh sonkh}})
This article looks to be of dubious historical accuracy. The first source, the book [https://books.google.be/books?id=BiKMDwAAQBAJ&dq=%22mahaRaja+Hathi+Singh%22&source=gbs_navlinks_s] "Maharaja Hathi Singh Tomar, only ruler of north india , who captured the mewat region after defeating mughal forces" looks impressive (published by the "World History Research Organisation"), but the publisher or organisation seems to be brand new, has no reputation I can find, and only one topic of research so far, the Tomar Emperors.
It will need some specialists to judge whether this is a hoax, a puff piece about a local ruler of little importance, or some neglected piece of history for which we have good sources, just not in English. So far, the latter seems unlikely though. Fram (talk) 10:24, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 10:44, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
- Delete Absolutely no results coming on a source search. This is a possible hoax. AmericanAir88(talk) 20:48, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
- Draft for now. From what I found out, this is not a hoax, but an article about a not so important chieftain. It seems Hathi Singh was a chieftain who build a mud fortress near Sonkh. Some references
- # [https://books.google.com/books?id=5OvVAAAAMAAJ&q="hati+singh"+sonkh&dq="hati+singh"+sonkh] - {{tq|A large archaeological expedition at Sonkh, about 22 km. to north west of Mathura was undertaken ... It was known as the Garhi (fortress) of a Jat. chief Hati Singh who was a contemporary of Suraj Mai and Jawahar Singh of ...}}
- # [https://books.google.com/books?id=wApuAAAAMAAJ&q="hati+singh"+sonkh&dq="hati+singh"+sonkh] - {{tq|...artificial plateau within the fields of Sonkh, fourteen miles as the crow flies from Mathura and some eight miles south of ... It was built by a Jät named Hati Singh, of the time of Suraj Mall of Bharatpur, or Jawähir Singh;}}
- # [https://books.google.com.sg/books?id=wWQBAAAAMAAJ&q="hati+singh"+sonkh&dq="hati+singh"+sonkh] {{tq|The nomenclature of the mound, 'Hati Singh-ki-garhi', preserves the memory of a Jat Chief, Hati Singh, who built a mud fortress here in the eighteenth century when Suraj Mai was on the throne of Bharatpur. Sonkh, according to some, derives ...}} --DreamLinker (talk) 16:26, 29 September 2019 (UTC)
- Comment – As already clarified by {{u|DreamLinker}}, this is not a hoax, and the subject's name is Hati Singh: Raja means king in Hindi language, and Sonkh is the place he ruled. But he has seemingly received just passing mentions in academic sources, mainly in connection with the excavations at Sonkh, which were carried out by German art historian Dr. Herbert Härtel. Here are relevant quotes from two of the three sources provided by DreamLinker:
:{{talk quote block|Sonkh Excavations: A large archaeological expedition at Sonkh, about 22 km. to north west of Mathura was undertaken by Dr. Herbert Härtel, Director of Indian Art Museum, Berlin and Professor in Free University. The work commenced in the year 1966, continued for eight years and was wound up in 1974. The excavators looked for an undisturbed site and they chose the lofty mound just at the northern outskirts of village Sonkh. It was known as the Garhi (fortress) of a Jat chief Hati Singh who was a contemporary of Suraj Mal and Jawahar Singh of Bharatpur in the 18th century.}}
:{{talk quote block|Other records concern the more recent history of Sonkh, the period of the Jäts. According to Growse the "old fort" was, as already quoted, built by a Jät named Hati Singh, of the time of Sûraj Mall of Bharatpur, or Jawähir Singh. We have reason to assume that the Jät mud fortress of Sonkh was built at the same time as the rubble-and-mud citadel of Dig under Badan Singh (1722-56) by his son, the then prince regent Suraj Mall. Sonkh is also mentioned as one of the four strongholds of the Jäts in the reign of Aurangzeb (Qanungo 1925: p. 341).}}
:Härtel and Sharma seem like [https://books.google.co.in/books?id=K8MECgAAQBAJ&pg=PA14&dq=%22Over+the+years,+a+number+of+scholars,+including+Sarasi+Kumar+Saraswati,+Herbert+H%C3%A4rtel,+and+Ramesh+Chandra+Sharma+have+put+forth+their+own+arguments+supporting+the+primacy+of+the+Mathur%C4%81+style.9+Yet+Gandh%C4%81ra+had+its+supporters+as+well.%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi2_v36qfbkAhVFMY8KHaTxC_4Q6wEIKjAA#v=onepage&q=%22Over%20the%20years%2C%20a%20number%20of%20scholars%2C%20including%20Sarasi%20Kumar%20Saraswati%2C%20Herbert%20H%C3%A4rtel%2C%20and%20Ramesh%20Chandra%20Sharma%20have%20put%20forth%20their%20own%20arguments%20supporting%20the%20primacy%20of%20the%20Mathur%C4%81%20style.9%20Yet%20Gandh%C4%81ra%20had%20its%20supporters%20as%20well.%22&f=false prominent scholars of their field], and the Google Scholar Citation Index of their above books are [https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=8503258309856083430&as_sdt=2005&sciodt=0,5&hl=en 87] & [https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=7443904236615124742&as_sdt=2005&sciodt=0,5&hl=en 72] respectively. Similar details of Hati Singh are also present in other sources, e.g. [https://books.google.co.in/books?id=8KEtAAAAMAAJ&q=%22The+extensive+ancient+habitational+area+was+converted+into+a+fortress+by+a+Jat+Chief+Hati+Singh+who+was+a+contemporary+of+Suraj+Mai+and+Jawahar+Singh+of+the+then+Bharatpur+State+in+the+1+8th+century.%22&dq=%22The+extensive+ancient+habitational+area+was+converted+into+a+fortress+by+a+Jat+Chief+Hati+Singh+who+was+a+contemporary+of+Suraj+Mai+and+Jawahar+Singh+of+the+then+Bharatpur+State+in+the+1+8th+century.%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi9jb2P5_DkAhWCgI8KHRPNCEQQ6wEILDAA], [https://books.google.co.in/books?id=wWQBAAAAMAAJ&q=%22The+nomenclature+of+the+mound,+%27Hati+Singh-ki-garhi%27,+preserves+the+memory+of+a+Jat+Chief,+Hati+Singh,+who+built+a+mud+fortress+here+in+the+eighteenth+century+when+Suraj+Mai+was+on+the+throne+of+Bharatpur.%22&dq=%22The+nomenclature+of+the+mound,+%27Hati+Singh-ki-garhi%27,+preserves+the+memory+of+a+Jat+Chief,+Hati+Singh,+who+built+a+mud+fortress+here+in+the+eighteenth+century+when+Suraj+Mai+was+on+the+throne+of+Bharatpur.%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjmvJ7L5PDkAhUSS48KHQ_WAN4Q6wEIKjAA], [https://books.google.co.in/books?id=N48tAQAAIAAJ&q=%22It+is+this+Old+Fort+which+was+erected+by+a+Jat+named+Hati+Singh+at+the+time+of+Suraj+Mall+of+Bharatpur,+or+Jawahir+Singh+as+mentioned+by+F.+S.+Growse.%22&dq=%22It+is+this+Old+Fort+which+was+erected+by+a+Jat+named+Hati+Singh+at+the+time+of+Suraj+Mall+of+Bharatpur,+or+Jawahir+Singh+as+mentioned+by+F.+S.+Growse.%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiy2uvF3vDkAhWFE4gKHZvFA8IQ6wEIKjAA], etc.
:Although I have access to only snippet view of the above sources, the subject seems non-notable to me. DreamLinker, I guess we should add a line or two at Saunkh regarding Hati Singh, and delete/redirect the above article. - NitinMlk (talk) 20:17, 29 September 2019 (UTC)
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:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.