Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Reg Gorman

:{{la|Reg Gorman}} – (View AfDView log)

:({{Find sources|Reg Gorman}})

Unsourced BLP, it can not be elected for BLP Prod due to age of article. I could not find any significant coverage by reliable sources that help establish notability as per WP:GNG. IRWolfie- (talk) 01:40, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

::People have dug up a lot of sources. This has convinced me that notability can be established for the article. IRWolfie- (talk) 10:08, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

• Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2012 March 5. Snotbot  t • c »  02:01, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
• Delete - Starred in no notable works. Fails WP:NACTOR. --Michaelzeng7 (talk - contribs) 02:40, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
• Keep - I'm sorry for the late response, I should place this discussion in my watchlist, but yes, after looking through your comments one would tend to agree with them. Thanks to MichaelQSchmidt for letting me know. --Michaelzeng7 (talk - contribs) 23:53, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
• Comment I did find [http://books.google.com/books?id=48kxAQAAIAAJ&q=%22an+imitation+of+Roy+%22Mo%22+Rene,+Australia's+greatest%22&dq=%22an+imitation+of+Roy+%22Mo%22+Rene,+Australia's+greatest%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=wD1UT_blK8WhiQKaxaW0Bg&sqi=2&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAA a description of Gorman] in the Australian magazine The Bulletin: "Reg Gorman, 70, is putting on a show called Hanging on to Vaudeville. Gorman was once known as 'the atomic comic'. Most of his working life was spent in TV, but it was in music hall that he got his training. In sketches like 'Guzzler's Gin' - in which a 1950s TV presenter gets progressively drunker - Gorman gets laughs throwing his body into increasingly violent contortions. At a time when most comedy is a mouth and a microphone, it is a reminder of an era when the comic had to use every trick in the book to keep the thing working. Most astonishing is an imitation of Roy 'Mo' Rene, Australia's greatest vaudevillian Three centuries are spanned in that homage, our whole comic heritage - held back, for a minute, from time's closing credits." Input from Australian editors would be appreciated. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:23, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
• Keep I added a ref to a national radio interview about his Vaudeville history, but dropped a zero when copying the URL. The AfD nominator didn't try very hard to find the link and instead deleted it, then AFD'd it! It is more than plausable that a 50 year career (see the IMDB list) in acting (mainly support roles, I admit) doesn't get much coverage online as he hasn't been that active in main roles in the last 10 years (ie what is covered well on google) -but having said that, there are plenty of refs on the "news" button at the top of this AfD. Very poor nomination. The-Pope (talk) 05:26, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

::There is only a single reference currently in the article. Which of the news references do you think establishes notability? IRWolfie- (talk) 10:23, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

• Comment the claim that he 'Starred in no notable works' is wrong. He was a regular character for the entire run of television serial The Sullivans, and that series is clearly notable, being a popular and critical success and winning television awards. His list of cinema and television credits (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0331116/) is extensive - he appeared in many very popular and notable television series aside from 'The Sullivans'. Format (talk) 07:28, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

::Being in a notable (notable by wikipedia standards that is) TV show doesn't make him notable himself. The films from IMDB are also minor films (mostly shorts). What were his roles in these series as well. I notice you say that the TV series was popular and critical success and winning television awards not that he was. This isn't an AfD for that show. IRWolfie- (talk) 10:23, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

:::And a work does not have to written of in Wikipedia in order to be notable. However, significant involvement in them is an assertion toward notability. And a note... many notable topics have not yet found there way to these pages. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 00:36, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. Jenks24 (talk) 19:32, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Jenks24 (talk) 19:32, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

• Keep His long-standing role in one of Australia's most popular and notable television series is more than enough to establish notability. A trip to a library looking for copies of TV Week from 1976 to 1983 will find plenty of material, not to mention newspapers etc. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 20:48, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
• Keep: The following five sources are some of a the ones found on a search for his name that indicate he passes WP:GNG to me, especially when coupled with [http://trove.nla.gov.au/result?q=%22Reg+Gorman%22 Trove results]. --LauraHale (talk) 20:57, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
• Keeping clear head, Herald Sun (Melbourne, Australia) - March 29, 2004, Length: 272 words (Estimated printed pages: 1), Veteran actor Reg Gorman is allergic to alcohol, although you wouldn't believe it it you saw his one-man show THERE are lots of really oddball acts at the Melbourne Comedy Festival from new bright young talents . . . but the older generation can still raise a laugh, too. Take Reg Gorman. He's been kicking around the Australian stage and screen scene for more than 50 years and is still going strong. Naturally he's perfected a few...
• It may sound funny, but comedy just isn't what it used to be - COMEDY FESTIVAL, Sunday Age, The (Melbourne, Australia) - March 21, 2004, Length: 558 words (Estimated printed pages: 3), Reg Gorman believes that the old jokes are the best. But then that probably has something to do with his age. For at 70, Gorman is the oldest comic at this year's Comedy Festival, where he is performing his one-man show, Hanging On To Vaudeville. Gorman has been in showbusiness for more than 50 years and is best known for his role as Jack the barman in the television drama The Sullivans. He has appeared in 101 film and television shows, acting with Nicole Kidman, Meryl Streep and...
• Famous five, Herald Sun (Melbourne, Australia) - September 23, 2000, Length: 442 words (Estimated printed pages: 2) The Gormans are a multi-talented show business family, writes CHERYL CRITCHLEY WHEN Charmaine Gorman was seven, she organised the five members of her family to perform in a show together. Most parents would be a tad surprised by such determination, but not Reg Gorman and Judith Roberts. Charmaine, now 23, and her siblings Kate, 30, and Karl, 27, have show business in their blood. Reg, best known as Jack the barman in The Sullivans, and Roberts, who starred in Fiddler...
• Cheers as Jack finds new digs, Herald Sun (Melbourne, Australia) - March 9, 2002Length: 240 words (Estimated printed pages: 1) JACK the barman from the long-running Aussie TV classic, The Sullivans, has joined the swelling ranks of empty nesters and bought a central-city apartment. Reg Gorman, who played Jack for six years, and wife Judy have just bought an apartment in the Daryl Jackson-designed Liverpool 16 development in Liverpool St between Bourke and Little Bourke streets. Gorman says the purchase was his second in the CBD, having bought a unit in Manchester Lane some time ago. A long-time Hampton...
• Hitting the boards for kids Herald Sun (Melbourne, Australia) - October 24, 2001 Length: 187 words (Estimated printed pages: 1) THE problem: The Royal Children's Hospital needs about half a mill to buy a machine that could be a life-saver for children who suffer liver failure. The solution: Let's put on a show! That's basically the background to The Last Great Vaudeville Show, which hits the Palais Theatre at 8pm, Friday, November 9, for one show only. Reg Gorman (remember the barman in The Sullivans) is producing, wife Judith Roberts (both above) is directing…
• Making a winner's fist Leader - Stonnington Leader (Melbourne, Australia) - June 15, 2011 Length: 235 words (Estimated printed pages: 1) REG Gorman's had his share of hits over the years, but it seems he works best punch drunk. The Malvern East veteran actor, known to most as Jack in long-running TV series The Sullivans, won Best Actor at this year's St Kilda Film Festival for his role in the short film Punch Drunk. Gorman said he was ``very surprised'' by the win: ``After 65 years of playing characters, getting a leading role was a shock, and an award even more...

:::Unless I'm mistaken these all seem like minor mentions in the same paper. Can you provide the links as well? Here are the requirements of WP:NACTOR: Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions. Has a large fan base or a significant "cult" following. Has made unique, prolific or innovative contributions to a field of entertainment. I think this is far from showing that this has been fulfilled. IRWolfie- (talk) 10:18, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

::::confused. Herald Sun, Stonnington Lead, Sunday Age are three different newspapers. Not the same. Herald Sun is the biggest newspaper in Melbourne. "Making a winner's fist Leader" is specifically about him "Keeping clear head" is also specifically about him. I used these few references to demonstrate WP:GNG. All articles are available through [http://www.newsbank.com/ Newsbank] along with a number more references. WP:GNG trumps WP:NACTOR yes? --LauraHale (talk) 03:34, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

:::::They don't seem to be signficant mentions by word count, so you are suggesting he is not notable as an actor but is notable for..? IRWolfie- (talk) 19:12, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

::::::It must be remembered that counting words to find "substantial" coverage is not a mandate of the definitions of WP:SIGCOV. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 00:36, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

• Keep The man been involved in the film business for 50 years in Australia, over 68 peices of work, been involved in some parts of the show neighbours, married to a different Australian actress with over 20 different tv/movie shows. Clearly meets wikis policy for a keep. Ray-Rays 01:35, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

::His work seems to have been mostly minor roles and/or in non-notable shows and shorts. Can you elaborate on "involved in some parts of the show neighbours". IRWolfie- (talk) 19:14, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

:::Seems to you is not seems to others. His television work, as verifiable to the series themslves, show him as recurring in multiple television series since 1964 to meet WP:ENT. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 00:36, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

::::His roles don't seem particularly prominent in these series, WP:NACTOR requires significant roles. But anyway, I think there's enough material around to create an article where notability is established so I am satisfied. IRWolfie- (talk) 10:11, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

• Keep To answer IRWolfie, he seems to be notable both as a vaudeville comedian, and also as a comedic actor. I don't think that a narrow reading of WP:NACTOR is the appropriate standard for a vaudeville performer with a career that began long before the internet. The Bulletin, Herald Sun, Stonnington Leader, and Sunday Age are all good solid references. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 19:33, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

::Is some articles in tabloid newspapers enough to establish notability? What part of the paper did they feature in as they seem relatively short mentions? IRWolfie- (talk) 19:57, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

:::"Tabloid" in some of his coverage means some brief significant coverage, and not the negative gossip coverage that give some tabloids a bad name in the US. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 00:36, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

• Comment: Other sources which establish WP:GNG include:
• Complete about and mention in headline:
• Reg Gorman, Home Magazine (Australia) - March 20, 2004, Length: 771 words (Estimated printed pages: 3), Snapshot Occupation: Comic actor Born: Sydney Educated: Left school in early teens and, being an avid reader, has been educated through books Career highlights: Doing my first show, in 1954, in front of a captive sit-down audience, rather than a club or pub Hanging on to a love of theatre, this seasoned performer is set to tread the boards again 1. Photo I love this photo of my family because it's the only one of everyone together where none of us…
• Picture in article of Gorman that has a caption mentioning him:
• It may sound funny, but comedy just isn't what it used to be - COMEDY FESTIVAL, Sunday Age, The (Melbourne, Australia) - March 21, 2004, Length: 558 words (Estimated printed pages: 3), Reg Gorman believes that the old jokes are the best. But then that probably has something to do with his age. For at 70, Gorman is the oldest comic at this year's Comedy Festival, where he is performing his one-man show, Hanging On To Vaudeville. Gorman has been in showbusiness for more than 50 years and is best known for his role as Jack the barman in the television drama The Sullivans. He has appeared in 101 film and television shows, acting with Nicole Kidman, Meryl Streep and…
• Cheers as Jack finds new digs, Herald Sun (Melbourne, Australia) - March 9, 2002, Length: 240 words (Estimated printed pages: 1), JACK the barman from the long-running Aussie TV classic, The Sullivans, has joined the swelling ranks of empty nesters and bought a central-city apartment. Reg Gorman, who played Jack for six years, and wife Judy have just bought an apartment in the Daryl Jackson-designed Liverpool 16 development in Liverpool St between Bourke and Little Bourke streets. Gorman says the purchase was his second in the CBD, having bought a unit in Manchester Lane some time ago. A long-time Hampton...
• Hitting the boards for kids, Herald Sun (Melbourne, Australia) - October 24, 2001, Length: 187 words (Estimated printed pages: 1), THE problem: The Royal Children's Hospital needs about half a mill to buy a machine that could be a life-saver for children who suffer liver failure. The solution: Let's put on a show! That's basically the background to The Last Great Vaudeville Show, which hits the Palais Theatre at 8pm, Friday, November 9, for one show only. Reg Gorman (remember the barman in The Sullivans) is producing, wife Judith Roberts (both above) is directing...
• Club funds to aid kids' caper, Fairfield Advance (Sydney, Australia) - August 1, 2001, Length: 184 words (Estimated printed pages: 1), ST Johns Park Bowling Club has donated $22,000 to the Variety Club's annual Christmas party for disadvantaged children. This is the sixth year the club has contributed to the party making St Johns Park Bowling Club a major sponsor. Assistant general manager Reg Coleclough presented the cheque to Variety Club party project manager Phillip O'Gorman. Mr O'Gorman said 5000 kids would be invited to Darling Harbour's Exhibition...
• Famous five, Herald Sun (Melbourne, Australia) - September 23, 2000, Length: 442 words (Estimated printed pages: 2), The Gormans are a multi-talented show business family, writes CHERYL CRITCHLEY WHEN Charmaine Gorman was seven, she organised the five members of her family to perform in a show together. Most parents would be a tad surprised by such determination, but not Reg Gorman and Judith Roberts. Charmaine, now 23, and her siblings Kate, 30, and Karl, 27, have show business in their blood. Reg, best known as Jack the barman in The Sullivans, and Roberts, who starred in Fiddler…
• Mentioned in the first paragraph:
• Making a winner's fist, Leader - Stonnington Leader (Melbourne, Australia) - June 15, 2011, Length: 235 words (Estimated printed pages: 1), REG Gorman's had his share of hits over the years, but it seems he works best punch drunk. The Malvern East veteran actor, known to most as Jack in long-running TV series The Sullivans, won Best Actor at this year's St Kilda Film Festival for his role in the short film Punch Drunk. Gorman said he was ``very surprised'' by the win: ``After 65 years of playing characters, getting a leading role was a shock, and an award even more...
• Secret Agent, Sunday Age, The (Melbourne, Australia) - May 1, 2011, Length: 206 words (Estimated printed pages: 2), Actors sell historic unit Actors Reg Gorman (pictured) and Judith Roberts have sold their two-bedroom apartment in St Kilda East's quaint Ardoch development for $740,000. The renovated, ground-floor unit at 8 Ardoch Avenue is in one of Ardoch's historic buildings, built in the 1920s. The oldest building in the estate dates from the 19th century, while newer buildings were developed there in the mid-1990s. Ardoch centres on a grassy expanse, and its residents share a...
• Get in on the act at Ardoch - PRIVATE PROPERTY, Age, The (Melbourne, Australia) - April 9, 2011, Length: 79 words (Estimated printed pages: 1), ACTORS Reg Gorman and Judith Roberts are selling a renovated apartment in St Kilda East's remarkable Ardoch development. Built in 1922, Ardoch is reportedly where Dame Nellie Melba stayed and where Russian spy Evdokia Petrov hid. The two-bedroom apartment at 3/8 Ardoch Avenue will be auctioned at 11.30am next Saturday and is expected to sell for about $700,000. Marshall White Armadale's John Manton is the marketing agent. Gorman (pictured) is...
• What's On, Leader - Preston Post Times (Melbourne, Australia) - May 19, 2004, Length: 87 words (Estimated printed pages: 1), MORNING tea: Australia's Biggest Morning Tea will be held at 10.30am on May 27 at the East Preston Uniting Church Hall, Highview Rd. Guest speaker/entertainers will be actor, comic and storyteller Reg Gorman and soloist Kath McDonald. Cost $5, includes morning tea and light lunch. SCHOOL invite: Reservoir District Secondary College will celebrate its 50th anniversary on Sunday. Details: 9470 3555. ARABIC speakers: Arabic speaking volunteers are needed for one to two…
• the critical guide - arts - melbourne comedy festival, Sunday Age, The (Melbourne, Australia) - April 11, 2004, Length: 1465 words (Estimated printed pages: 6), It's the last week of this year's comedy festival. What's worth seeing - and what's not. Eurobeat The Eurovision Musical WHERE: Billboard Nightclub WHEN: To April 17 ***½ Some people would argue that the Eurovision Song Contest doesn't need to be turned into comedy - it is already. But that doesn't stop this show from being both funny and a well-executed EuroTrash tribute. Bosnian beauty Bronya (Julia…
• Keeping clear head, Herald Sun (Melbourne, Australia) - March 29, 2004, Length: 272 words (Estimated printed pages: 1), Veteran actor Reg Gorman is allergic to alcohol, although you wouldn't believe it it you saw his one-man show THERE are lots of really oddball acts at the Melbourne Comedy Festival from new bright young talents . . . but the older generation can still raise a laugh, too. Take Reg Gorman. He's been kicking around the Australian stage and screen scene for more than 50 years and is still going strong. Naturally he's perfected a few...
• It may sound funny, but comedy just isn't what it used to be - COMEDY FESTIVAL, Sunday Age, The (Melbourne, Australia) - March 21, 2004, Length: 558 words (Estimated printed pages: 3), Reg Gorman believes that the old jokes are the best. But then that probably has something to do with his age. For at 70, Gorman is the oldest comic at this year's Comedy Festival, where he is performing his one-man show, Hanging On To Vaudeville. Gorman has been in showbusiness for more than 50 years and is best known for his role as Jack the barman in the television drama The Sullivans. He has appeared in 101 film and television shows, acting with Nicole Kidman, Meryl Streep and...
• The Aussie's are coming - HIGHLIGHTS, Sunday Age, The (Melbourne, Australia) - March 5, 2000, Length: 1701 words (Estimated printed pages: 7), Critic's choice Ballykissangel: Eureka Sunday, ABC, 7.30pm *** MELBOURNE gets a passing mention in tonight's Ballykissangel, with Australia's Judy Morris guest-starring as one of the city's goldmining company executives. Morris plays Laurie Woskett, a woman who approaches Brian Quigley (Tony Doyle) to tell him her company will pay half a million dollars to buy his family's stake in an Australian mine that goes back to the years of…
• Other newspaper references found via Trove:
• {{cite news |url=http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article46460705 |title=Pete Smith. |newspaper=The Australian Women's Weekly (1933 - 1982) |location=1933 - 1982 |date=28 October 1981 |accessdate=9 March 2012 |page=160 |publisher=National Library of Australia}}
• {{cite news |url=http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article47207480 |title=SULLIVANS' STAR STEPS ON STAGE. |newspaper=The Australian Women's Weekly (1933 - 1982) |location=1933 - 1982 |date=3 September 1980 |accessdate=9 March 2012 |page=19 Supplement: Your TV Magazine |publisher=National Library of Australia}}
• {{cite news |url=http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article47230688 |title=Andy's back in tune. |newspaper=The Australian Women's Weekly (1933 - 1982) |location=1933 - 1982 |date=27 May 1981 |accessdate=9 March 2012 |page=29 Supplement: TV WORLD |publisher=National Library of Australia}}
• {{cite news |url=http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article55462732 |title=How the Stars will spend their holidays. |newspaper=The Australian Women's Weekly (1933 - 1982) |location=1933 - 1982 |date=30 December 1981 |accessdate=9 March 2012 |page=16 |publisher=National Library of Australia}}
• {{cite news |url=http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article43600379 |title=Harry Guardino's Australian dream. |newspaper=The Australian Women's Weekly (1933 - 1982) |location=1933 - 1982 |date=8 December 1971 |accessdate=9 March 2012 |page=17 |publisher=National Library of Australia}}
• {{cite news |url=http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article52622302 |title=Special deal for Sullivans' US payments. |newspaper=The Australian Women's Weekly (1933 - 1982) |location=1933 - 1982 |date=12 November 1980 |accessdate=9 March 2012 |page=186 Supplement: Your TV Magazine |publisher=National Library of Australia}}
• {{cite news |url=http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article55187738 |title=Sullivans in the swim. |newspaper=The Australian Women's Weekly (1933 - 1982) |location=1933 - 1982 |date=17 February 1982 |accessdate=9 March 2012 |page=110 |publisher=National Library of Australia}}

::: There are more available sources that help establish WP:GNG but I don't want to spend another 10 minutes looking. --LauraHale (talk) 21:01, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

• Keep and close per meeting of WP:ENT and WP:GNG. Not yet in the article, we have him as recurring characters in multiple television series.[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0331116/filmotype] most recently as Harry Patterson in 26 episodes of Fergus McPhail. While it seems that articles on Australian television stars sometimes get short shrift on en.Wikipedia, we have multiple articles offered as sources which give signifcant coverage, and even many of the lessor are suitable as long as they address the subject directly and offer some detail about his work. Notable to us, as shown by the multiple proffered sources, is perfectly fine with en.Wikipedia. While understanding the nominator's concern that the article was unsourced when nominated,[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reg_Gorman&diff=480248183&oldid=480248007] such lack has proven to be addressable[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reg_Gorman&diff=480883434&oldid=480248183] and the article improvable through use of available sources. We usually prefer not to delete stub article on notable topics if issues can be shown as addressable through regular editing. And kudos to User:LauraHale for her astute WP:AFTER. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 00:36, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

::I'm pretty satisfied that an article which establishes notability firmly can be created now. IRWolfie- (talk) 10:07, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

• Keep, per the impressive research by LauraHale above. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 11:30, 12 March 2012 (UTC).

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.