Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Salem el-Masri

:{{la|Salem el-Masri}} – (View AfDView log)

:({{Find sources|Salem el-Masri}})

Negative BLP that seems to fails WP:GNG. There is only one primary source and primary sources do not count towards notability. IQinn (talk) 03:16, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

• Delete - Article fails notability requirements by a large margin. Should be considered for speedy deletion in fact. --Yachtsman1 (talk) 15:45, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Terrorism-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 23:27, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 23:27, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

• Comment. Not clear if nom did a wp:before search, but the indicated ref does not appear to be the only source. Also, a search of his name in Arabic would be helpful.--Epeefleche (talk) 00:34, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

::Sure i did. Yes i saw you just added one source. You have the page number? I could not verify this information online. The reference link did also not show the information. You have a better link? So far the article was only based on the testimony of one witness found in one primary source. I searched again but with no results. I guess we are not the CIA. I do not mind if the article will be deleted or not but it should at least fulfill WP:GNG so we should be able to find in depth coverage in multiple secondary sources. IQinn (talk) 03:07, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

:::There is more than one discussion of him in the book. For now, I just added the one at pages 146-48. But the additional material written about him elsewhere in the book adds to the reflection of his notability. The link shows the information perfectly to me -- what country are you editing from? I am in the U.S. It has to have significant RS coverage, but it may have that even in one source -- significant does not mean multiple. Have you also done a search of his name in Arabic? And have you searched under "al-Masri" as well?--Epeefleche (talk) 05:35, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

::::Yeah i tried also some other spellings of his name. WP:GNG says: "Multiple sources are generally expected." and i do not see the book "Inside Al Qaeda" is primarily about him and seems not to cover him in depth. Do you have that book? It would also helpful to know more about him to have a basis for more searches. So far there is only one sentence in the article based on that book. I just feel there is simply not enough information available to write a quality BLP unless we might find further sources but others might see this differently. IQinn (talk) 05:52, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

:::::So, multiple sources are not a hard and fast rule -- and in fact, we have multiple sources here (GNG does not exclude primary sources in that quote). He is covered in some depth in the book -- there is no need that the book be primarily about him (as you seem to be suggesting above). There are now a number of sentences in the article based on the book, which is put out by a top-level RS university press. Are you saying you checked in Arabic, and found nothing, in addition to not seeing this book?--Epeefleche (talk) 06:03, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

:::::::Yes i searched in Arabic too, but i am not good in Arabic so other might also try. WP:GNG says that primary sources do not count toward notability. So we have only one source (the book). I do disagree that this one source cover him in depth. It seems to be the case that the book simply mirrors the few information from Jamal al-Fadl testimony. IQinn (talk) 06:21, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

::::::::I thought you said you were unable to read the text of the book? In addition, GNG says "The number and nature of reliable sources needed varies depending on the depth of coverage and quality of the sources." Here, we have a very-high level RS, and the depth of the coverage is more than trivial.--Epeefleche (talk) 06:23, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

:::::::::That is right. My assumption is based on the fact that you added the book references to information that come from the primary source testimony and there seems to be no other additional information from the book that can not be found in the testimony. Or?

:::::::::I seem to be right "Sources", for notability purposes, should be secondary sources" and sorry i still doubt that the book covers him in depth. Still borderline notability so far and i hope we can find more sources. I also consider a possible merge into another article. One source with limited information is also problematic in terms of NPOV and BLP and simply hard to write a quality biography you might also check what Jimbo Wales has said about that. Let's hope for more sources. I myself would like to know more. IQinn (talk) 06:35, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

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:Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:23, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

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• Weak keep. Borderline, but the reference to the book that has now been added appears substantial enough to confer notability status.--Epeefleche (talk) 06:53, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
• Keep per epeefleche.--Wikireader41 (talk) 23:32, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.