Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Scottsdale National Golf Club

:{{la|Scottsdale National Golf Club}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [https://tools.wmflabs.org/jackbot/snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Scottsdale_National_Golf_Club Stats])

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Fails WP:N in two ways. First, the topic lacks widespread coverage - there are a couple of news articles from Arizona from 2013, right when the course was purchased by Parsons, but nothing from outside the area. Since the purchase, there has been no apparent in-depth coverage of the course, even in golf-oriented publications like Golf Digest or ScoreGolf, meaning that this fails the portion of WP:N that looks for coverage over a period of time. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 09:46, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. Happy holidays! ^{Babymissfortune} 10:16, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Golf-related deletion discussions. Happy holidays! ^{Babymissfortune} 10:17, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Arizona-related deletion discussions. Happy holidays! ^{Babymissfortune} 10:19, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

• Merge and redirect to Scottsdale, Arizona#Golf, where it is a logical mention and a plausible redirect. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 10:30, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
• Delete Even with new sources, I don't see sufficient in-depth coverage to make this golf course noteable. No need to merge/redirect - the Scottsdale article itself says there are over 200 golf courses in Scottsdale - we would certainly not mention in that article and create redirects for all 200 just because they exist. MB 14:02, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect to Scottsdale, Arizona#Golf, per The Bushranger. Although there are over 200 golf courses, it is doubtful that many are referenced in national media. Several other golf courses are singled out in that section, this one can also be treated that way. bd2412 T 16:21, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

::What about merge&redirect to Bob Parsons, since pretty much all the coverage I've seen has been in the context of him buying and refitting the course? ♠PMC♠ (talk) 22:47, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

::: I would prefer to see a geographic location merged to the larger geographic location of which it is part. Personal ownership can change much more easily than location. bd2412 T 18:38, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

:::: Yeah fair enough it was just a thought. For the record I'm on board with an M&R. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 22:44, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

::::: Where is this mentioned in any significant way in national media? Per the list below by PMC it's mostly local coverage and what is truly national is mostly trivial. NYT is a tangential mention. Golf.com is trivial. I don't see anything else under "national media", so I stand by delete with no redirect. MB 03:03, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

• Keep It opened [https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikmatuszewski/2017/09/19/has-billionaire-bob-parsons-created-golfs-wildest-member-guest-tournament/#3119e4d06113 more holes] than any other course in the United States in 2016. The [https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2014/01/28/bob-parsons-to-scottsdale-national.html member model] is notable in the world of golf. It's the [https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikmatuszewski/2017/03/29/pxg-releases-its-second-line-of-golf-clubs-after-billionaire-owner-has-wow-moment/#5cdf32967f1a homebase] of Parsons Xtreme Golf, which is a [http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/billionaire-bob-parsons-shaking-golf-industry significant new player in the industry]. The course is extensively covered in [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/21/sports/michael-phelps-grant-hackett-tiger-woods.html national], [https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2013/10/09/bob-parsons-buys-golf-club-scottsdale.html business], [https://www.azcentral.com/story/entertainment/dining/dominic-armato/2017/10/13/eddie-matney-new-executive-chef-estancia-club-private-golf-club-scottsdale/760189001/ culinary], [http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/billionaire-bob-parsons-shaking-golf-industry golf], [https://azbex.com/tag/scottsdale-national-golf-club/ industry], and [https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/scottsdale/2015/07/10/godaddy-founder-grand-vision-golf-course/29926035/ general media]. Very much seems like a case of WP:BEFORE as there are substantial assertions of notability easily accessed and Google is a minefield of reliable sources asserting notability. LargelyRecyclable (talk) 08:59, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

::I did in fact see those references in my BEFORE check. They are unhelpful in establishing notability per WP:N, for the following reasons:

::#Forbes: actually a Contributor post, which means it's equivalent to a blog and meaningless in terms of notability.

::#Phoenix Business Journal: reliable, but as I noted in my nom, local coverage is not enough to clear the WP:N hurdle.

::#Second Forbes article: another Contributor article (same author, in fact); even if it weren't, notability is not inherited from a business to the location of its headquarters.

::#NY Times: A scant paragraph mentioning that two athletes like to relax there does not in-depth coverage make.

::#Phoenix Business Journal: local coverage again.

::#AZ Central: local coverage of a chef getting a new job. Even if it wasn't local, the golf course gets mentioned halfway down the page in a single sentence, basically the definition of a trivial mention.

::#Golf.com: this is an in-depth profile of Parsons and PXG. The gold course is mentioned once, at the beginning of the article, as the temporary location of Mr. Parsons's desk for the purpose of the photoshoot. No other detail about the course is provided in the article.

::#Arizona Builder's Exchange: local coverage.

::#AZ Central again: local coverage, again.

::Long story short, none of this is enough to clear WP:N which looks for {{tq|sufficiently significant attention by the world at large and over a period of time}}. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 10:13, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

:::The Forbes contributor is [https://muckrack.com/erik-matuszewski Erik Matuszewski]; the format of the article doesn't really matter.

:::Some local coverage may not be sufficient but this is substantial local coverage from reliable sources and the "local" in this context is the media, sporting, and business community of the 5th largest city and 12th largest metroplex in the United States. The BizJournal is a national media entity who publishes content by region. Same with AZ Central vis-a-vis USA Today. It's not exactly a PDF of the weekly county paper mentioning a new coffee stand opening next to Bob's Diner. Media mentions do not have to be from national entities to establish notability and what I've linked was just cursory results. There are dozens, maybe hundreds, of mentions of the facility from reliable sources who make assertions that it is notable for some reason or another. Just another quick look shows NBC's Golf Channel [http://www.golfchannel.com/article/rex-hoggard/bob-parsons-eccentric-man-behind-pxg-clubs/ discussing] the new member format. The sources are there, someone just needs to put in the work. LargelyRecyclable (talk) 19:54, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

• Comment Additional coverage in reliable sources asserting notability [https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/scottsdale/2015/07/10/godaddy-founder-grand-vision-golf-course/29926035/][http://archive.azcentral.com/business/arizonaeconomy/articles/20140130godaddy-founder-bob-parsons-shakes-up-scottsdale-golf-club.html][https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2014/03/11/bob-parsons-buys-223-acre-residential-project-next.html][https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2014/02/04/bob-parsons-writing-own-rules-at.html], GolfDigest ranking the course in the top ten in the State[https://www.golflink.com/golf-course-awards/best-golf-courses.aspx?id=2123] and Golfweek rating it in the top ten new courses in the United States for 2005[https://www.golflink.com/golf-course-awards/best-golf-courses.aspx?id=1723]. LargelyRecyclable (talk) 22:20, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

• Merge to Scottsdale, Arizona#Golf as a functional WP:ATD-M. The suggested merge target presently lacks a mention of this golf club. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 07:28, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.