Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Siberian Republic

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:I am scientist, I live in Novosibirsk, and history of Siberia is very interesting for me. I claim, that there wasn't any "Siberian Republic" in history. Two times there existed Provisional Government of Autonomous Siberia, but neither first, nor second claimed Siberia as independent country. Both provisional goverments claimed themselves as goverment of part of RUSSIA, and planned to extend its power to the whole Russia. Maybe it was misinterpreted by some users, who considered declaration of organisation the Siberian Provisional Goverment as "Declaratio of Siberia Independence". --Slb nsk (talk) 10:14, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

• Comment It currently doesn't provide enough references to establish notability, and the proposer's claims seem correct as I see no evidence of a desire for an independent Siberia at the time. A redirect to History of Siberia would be possible, or Provisional Government of Autonomous Siberia. I'm willing to wait and see if anyone can provide more references/evidence, but think a redirect or delete is likely. --Colapeninsula (talk) 12:57, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
• I fully concur with the nominator. The best way to deal with this page is to redirect it to Provisional Government of Autonomous Siberia (redirecting to "History of Siberia" is possible, but not as specific), which is the solution I support.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 22, 2013; 14:53 (UTC)

::Comment - Ya can't redirect to a disambiguation page, can ya? Isn't that a double-redirect? I'm going to dig through a few books to see if I can find a definitive answer here. Carrite (talk) 22:18, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

• Redirect per nom. There seems no reason for a separate article, barring an unjustified POV claim for a republic's existence, so redirection is appropriate. Chiswick Chap (talk) 17:37, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

• Redirect to Provisional Siberian Government (Omsk). Okay, this is not as hard as it seemed; two articles, one on the Vladivostok Government and one on the Omsk Government, which were inexplicably named after the obscure figures who nominally headed them. I've boldly renamed. It is correct that this is a fork; I own a couple books by Shlapentokh but not this one so can't really see what exactly the cited source says — but the notion that there are two "encyclopedic" Siberian governments of the Civil War period is correct, I think. I'll keep puttering around with these pieces a little. Carrite (talk) 22:39, 22 February 2013 (UTC) Last edit: Carrite (talk) 23:09, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

• Redirect to Provisional Siberian Government (Omsk). Admittedly I know relatively little about Siberian political history, but I did a bit of investigation and discovered that some sources do refer to a "Siberian Republic" which existed in 1918. However, upon skimming the context of these sources, it would appear that the Provisional Siberian Government (Omsk) is the subject of discussion. For anyone interested in working on the article, here are some sources I encountered: [http://books.google.com/books?id=m3EzLFLrlzUC&pg=PA37], [http://books.google.com/books?id=smDy35onbtAC&pg=PA108], [http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F6071EFB3B55157A93CAA8178AD95F4C8185F9], [http://books.google.com/books?id=nuX723z-1wsC&pg=PA20]. --Mike Agricola (talk) 22:59, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

:: Yes, I agree that this relates to the short-lived Omsk Provisional Government for the short interval of time before Kolchak (a White general and military strongman) took charge of the merged governments based in Omsk in the fall of 1918. Carrite (talk) 23:09, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

:: Your fourth link there, the book by Smele, looks to be cutting edge — probably the best single source on the topic. There are dozens of books on the Russian Civil War which would touch on the topic, of course. Carrite (talk) 23:55, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:21, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:21, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

• Keep. On the subject found the following. 1. [http://www.dissercat.com/content/protsessy-suverenizatsii-v-sibiri-fevral-1917-1923-gg Processes of sovereignty in Siberia (February 1917-1923.) § 4.1. Education Siberian State and its elimination] - the theme SUMMARY on ВАК 07.00.02, Doctor of Sciences of the History Sushko, Alexey. Taken from http://rudocs.exdat.com/docs/index-172947.html summary says the following items in the first section "Education Siberian State and its elimination" shows the process of the formation of the Siberian Republic, Managing oblastnicheskim mainly on the composition of the Provisional Siberian Government ministers. The ideology of regionalism was the ideological basis for the creation of the new state. 2. [http://sun.tsu.ru/mminfo/000063105/323/image/323-174.pdf SIBERIAN NATIONALISM AND THE STRUGGLE FOR POWER IN THE REGION (March 1917 - November 1918))] - that the same author. This source overthrow overthrow of Soviet power and the subsequent proclamation of the Provisional Siberian Government Declaration on state sovereignty of Siberia from July 4th, 1918 defined the transition regionalism in the status of state ideology. The future historian must unambiguously be noted that in 1918 there was an independent Siberian republic - recalled GK Gins [26. Pp. 121]. The basis of the state ideology could only lie Siberia Siberian patriotism, promote regionalists <> With the formation of Russian Provisional Government - Director, Siberian nationalists agreed to self-liquidation of the Siberian republic as believed that "it was impossible to go to Moscow to oblastnicheskimi slogans" [33. Pp. 22]. With the declaration of November 3, 1918 "On the transfer of sovereignty in Siberia Russian Provisional Government" Siberian nationalism lost its political importance. 3.[http://oldvak.ed.gov.ru/common/img/uploaded/files/vak/announcements/yuridicheskie/NikitinAN.doc Nikitin Alexey. Statehood "white" Russia: formation, evolution and collapse (1918-1920 gg.): Abstract of thesis. Dr. ... jurid. Sciences: 12.00.01 - Template: M: University of Moscow Russian Interior Ministry, 2007.] Quotes In the second section, "The Autonomous Siberia: parliamentary or authoritarianism," explores the process of statehood in Siberia .... Another very important measure to strengthen the public of Siberia, in a declaration of the Provisional Siberian Government on July 4, 1918 "On state independence of Siberia" . This act was declared international personality, unrestricted and independent of the government, led by the Provisional Siberian Government. 4. GK Gins. Siberia, the Allies and Kolchak. [http://www.archive.org/details/sibirsoiuznikiik01guinuoft volume 1] - The future historian should definitely be noted that in 1918 there was a 4 month self Siberian republic. 5. [http://oblastnichestvo.lib.tomsk.ru/page.php?id=80 Chronicle oblastnicheskogo movement in Siberia (1852-1919)]. Quote 1918, July 4. Omsk. Provisional Siberian Government adopted the "Declaration on the state sovereignty of Siberia." (GARF. F.5871. Op.1.D.92.L.8.) Vyacheslav84 (talk) 18:56, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

::Comment The first work your mentioned was made in my university, hence it was easy to me to see the original text in russian :-) Russian text clearly says that "there was a PROCESS of creating Siberian republik, but it was terminated: those, who could make this, prefer to restore non-divided state of Russia". --Slb nsk (talk) 06:59, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

:::Comment But it was 4 months in 1918. To quote the original [http://sun.tsu.ru/mminfo/000063105/323/image/323-174.pdf SIBERIAN NATIONALISM AND THE STRUGGLE FOR POWER IN THE REGION (March 1917 - November 1918))] - The future historian must unambiguously be noted that in 1918 there was an independent Siberian republic - recalled GK Gins [26. Pp. 121]. Vyacheslav84 (talk) 13:40, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

• Redirect to Provisional Siberian Government (Omsk).--Soroboro (talk) 23:46, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.