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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Suburban Express

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. SoWhy 13:28, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

=[[Suburban Express]]=

{{Not a ballot}}

:{{la|Suburban Express}} ([{{fullurl:Suburban Express|wpReason={{urlencode: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Suburban Express}}&action=delete}} delete]) – (View AfD)(View log)

Appears to be a small, non-notable company... Adolphus79 (talk) 19:54, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

  • Comment - With all the work done on this article (as well as the good quality refs added), I feel that it is beginning to show both notability as well as verifiability... without a clear consensus one way or the other I do not feel comfortable with a non-admin closure, but no longer feel so strongly about deleting it, therefore, I would like to change my decision to Weak Keep... - Adolphus79 (talk) 16:46, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete Agreed with original reasoning. --Techpro5238 20:28, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

:so let's keep new authors from posting anything. chicken, egg. egg, chicken. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.212.143.193 (talk) 20:17, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

:please step away from the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.212.143.193 (talk • contribs) 20:26, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

  • Strong Delete Notability not established, unlikely to be established, no verifiable secondary references, fails primary criteria for WP:COMPANY hugely. SlubGlub (talk) 21:03, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep References being added. UIUC has a student population of something like 50,000, and this is the most popular transportation in and out of campus. It also serves other significant universities and is known to the hundreds of thousands of students who have ridden it in the past 25 yars. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.16.173.49 (talk) 21:22, 23 November 2008 (UTC) — 75.16.173.49 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. {{ #if: | The preceding unsigned comment was added at {{{2}}} (UTC).}}

::You might be confusing importance with notability. Notability has a specific meaning here at wikipedia, and we need independent, reliable sources to show it. Any chance you can find some and add them to the article?--Fabrictramp | talk to me 21:50, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

:::98.212.143.193 / 75.16.173.49 may be a double vote see: Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Fairmont-m19. Both appear to be Champaign, Illinois area IP addresses with no edits outside this topic. --Dual Freq (talk) 22:09, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

  • Delete as it doesn't satisfy WP:ORG guidelines for notability. It's another transportation company. I'm sure it is important to the users of their services, but as Fabrictramp points out, the objective importantance of a subject is not a means to meet notability requirements. Charles D. Ward (talk) 22:03, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. —Dual Freq (talk) 22:05, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment I've added the {{tl|Not a vote}} template, as it appears that this article is attracting several SPAs. Feel free to revert me if you disagree. Charles D. Ward (talk) 22:12, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Strong delete Small niche bus company among at least two others that exclusively serve Chicago-Champaign routes. As a former UIUC student, I can attest to their non-notability; they're mostly memorable in people's minds for their smear advertisements against their competitors. As to the above SPA comment, it wouldn't surprise me if the subject were trying to fight this; I haven't ridden with them since 2003 and am still getting unsolicited emails from throwaway email accounts advertising their services. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 22:48, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

:An employee tried to create a link and an article and got herself into a jam, tried to fix from another computer. I decided to try to make something of her idea. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.16.173.49 (talk) 22:45, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

:ps it seems like her initial contribution to illinois terminal page was reasonable, and like she got slapped down unreasonably. all she did was to try to add links to the carriers that serve illinois terminal. the current illinois terminal entry really doesn't include much information. it's not an isolated entity - it's a hub of activity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.16.173.49 (talk) 22:50, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

  • Weak keep -- minor notability and an unusual history. Possibly just about enough to warrant an article, though I am not certain. It still needs to be better referenced, preferably with more independent sources, but that suggests tagging it for improvement, rahte than deleting it. Peterkingiron (talk) 00:00, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Weak keep I've usually opposed articles on transportation services on individual campuses. This seems to be more than that, and it seems to have somewhat more distinctive notability and possible general interest. There are still substantial elements of promotional or at least nonencyclopedic content content DGG (talk) 00:53, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep, mainly because I found a 3/4 page story from 1985 in the newspaper archive which I feel establishes notability: Fare wars - Bus service run by student butts heads with Greyhound. Dan Rozek. Daily Herald. Chicago, Illinois. Sunday, October 20, 1985. Page 20. According to the article, the company started as a student run underdog that Greyhound tried and failed to pound into the dirt by lowering fairs from the mid-$30 range down to $15. Greyhound also had UIUC refusing to allow S.E. ticket sales to discourage competition with Greyhound. Greyhound also requested two separate investigations of S.E. by the Illinois Commerce Commission. It's interesting that 25 years after forming and being the underdog, it is probably thought of in the same way that Greyhound was thought of back then (at least based on the "smear competitors" comment above). Kind of a grass roots company started to "fight the man", but now it is "the man". Certainly it's not a story as big as the founding of Microsoft or Federal Express, but it's still noteworthy. The article is a COI right now, but it really isn't an over the top advertisement, in an attempt to provide balance, one of the original authors even provided names and links of competitors. --Dual Freq (talk) 02:10, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep and cleanup, preferably with a chainsaw. I believe notability is established through multiple reliable sources independent of the topic. Kudos to the above user who overcame FUTON bias and dug up a source all the way from 1985. I will also note that the last couple of comments in this AFD is certainly how an AFD should be conducted — in a constructive manner and not through any underhanded trickery or anything like that. MuZemike (talk) 03:01, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep, as it has now proved to be notable. Please help the rookie editor to cleanup and Wikify this article, rather than just blindly delete. FairFare (talk) 15:11, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Weak Keep - Although this will never be a major work, it can now be moved into the non-fiction section and will also supplement the university articles without being buried within them. -Secondarywaltz (talk) 18:33, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete. Too little in-depth coverage by independent sources, not enough here to pass WP:ORG. Nsk92 (talk) 02:51, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.