Login
Login

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Suicide of Nicola Raphael

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was

Delete. I'm going to assume good faith that what CactusWriter said about DreamFocus's point is true. --Patar knight - chat/contributions 03:49, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

=[[Suicide of Nicola Raphael]]=

:{{la|Suicide of Nicola Raphael}} – (View AfDView log)

:({{Find sources|Suicide of Nicola Raphael}})

Once again, I'm on the fence. Although this was a tragedy, this seems to violate WP:ONEEVENT, as I cannot find widespread coverage about this girl's suicide. There are [http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4DKUS_enUS293US293&q=%22Nicola+Raphael%22#sclient=psy&hl=en&rlz=1T4DKUS_enUS293US293&tbs=nws:1&q=%22nicola+raphael%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=65a54bf3936513f9 zero] Gnews hits for her name (searching without the quotes resulted in false positives), and a regular Google search resulted in either blogs or just passing mentions. Erpert (let's talk about it) 20:49, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

  • Actually, I just discovered from looking at the creator's talk page that the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicola_Raphael original version of the article] was deleted and salted. I guess I'll try {{tl|db-bio}}. Erpert (let's talk about it) 20:52, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
  • I've very reluctantly restored this after I deleted it under A7 without seeing the open AfD (mistook it for a hangon tag). Any other administrator may feel the new article meets a speedy deletion criterion (I don't, although the original Nicola Raphael arguably did - I initially overlooked the fairly substantial expansion from that article). In that case don't let my restoration get in the way. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:02, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

There are plenty of results under google news search by simply clicking archives as generalnewssearch only seems to bring up things from the current month — Preceding unsigned comment added by RR1953 (talk • contribs) 22:55, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Also how is this suicide any less notable than any of the others listed among notable suicides in the bullying infobox — Preceding unsigned comment added by RR1953 (talk • contribs) 23:00, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

  • Delete - Per WP:1E and WP:NOTMEMORIAL. Unlike the "see other" articles about suicides listed on the page, I find no evidence of significant results in this case (i.e., legislation, etc.). Unfortunately, this is only another of the hundreds of teenage suicides which occur each year as listed [http://www.bullyonline.org/schoolbully/cases.htm here]. — CactusWriter (talk) 23:02, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Copied from additions to the article as 2 examples shoowing notability and influence outside the single event in campaigns/charity and in parliament:

:The case was also one of those cited by the daily record in the setting up of their "Save our Kids Campaign" as seen here[http://www.thefreelibrary.com/SAVE+OUR+KIDS%3A+Kids+will+not+be+allowed+to+suffer.-a093072666]

:The Issue was also raised in the Scottish Parliament by Lyndsay McIntosh MSP : "The minister mentioned children in his opening remarks, so I will channel his thoughts towards youngsters' being bullied. We should think about 16-year-old Nicola Raphael or 12-year-old Emma, who attended Broughton High School, both of whom committed suicide as a result of being bullied at school. I can think of nothing more crucial to the quality of life of our youngsters than that."[http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/business/officialreports/meetingsparliament/or-02/sor1107-02.htm] RR1953 (talk) 14:05, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

::*I would also argue that another item making this suicide distinct is the organ donation angle along with the nhs campaign and the the various stories and tv documentary . the organ donation intentions dated long prior to the suicide and the campaign was much after so that would seem to me notability outside one event. RR1953 (talk) 16:36, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

  • Comment I think that WP:BLP1E is overused, and the question is really whether the event (which is what the article is about) was notable by Wikipedia standards. I'm sorry to say that I don't think it meets WP:EVENT, based on [http://news.google.com/archivesearch?as_user_ldate=2001/01&as_user_hdate=2010&q=%22nicola+raphael%22&scoring=a&q=%22nicola+raphael%22&lnav=od&btnG=Go]. The coverage was limited to Glasgow, with one mention in another Herald-- the one in Miami-- in the course of some people news about Marilyn Manson. Teen suicide, bullying and intolerance are all important; unfortunately, examples of this happen so often that even the story a current victim is soon replaced when it happens again. Mandsford 16:47, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Keep Ample coverage and it had lasting impact. Clicking the Google news archive search at the top of the AFD, I find one article straight away.

:NEWS SPECIAL: schools get radical in a determined bid to protect...

:Pay-Per-View - Evening Times - ProQuest Archiver - Jun 10, 2002

:The issue of bullying has been pushed up the political agenda after a number of high-profile cases, including the suicide of Nicola Raphael who took her

:Here we see a major newspaper says that this suicide and other high profile cases caused some changes to happen. Since you have to pay to read the entire article, I can't tell what "radical" things the schools had done to protect future victims of bullying. Dream Focus 03:35, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

:::Dream Focus, if you are unable to read the news article, I'll clarify it for you. That news article is about a local conference for Glasgow parents, teachers and kids to discuss anti-bullying measures. Nicola's name is mentioned only in that one sentence in the article -- likely because it was a local name among [http://www.bullyonline.org/schoolbully/cases.htm this list of the many suicides] throughout the UK. Her death in 2001 occurred a year prior to the June 2002 meeting. The meeting actually did not occur until there were high profile cases as seen on the list above.

:::Moreover, as written, our Wikipedia article is disingenuous. The "Save Our Kids" campaign did not result from Nicola Raphael's death, but rather the September 2002 death of Emma Morrison. (See [http://www.thefreelibrary.com/SAVE+OUR+KIDS+FOR+EMMA%3B+Your+cash+will+help+young+Scots+in+crisis.-a092591017 the face of our campaign after her death touched the hearts of readers across the country.]) The quote from a brief 2-minute announcement by the local Glasgow MP states [http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/business/officialreports/meetingsparliament/or-02/sor1107-02.htm Emma's sudden and horrendous death resulted in a campaign called "Save Our Kids" by a national daily tabloid newspaper.]

:::There is no cause-and-effect here. There has been no lasting impact demonstrated. — CactusWriter (talk) 19:58, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

::::A local suicide caused them to take action in that area. The news article is from Jun 10, 2002, so had nothing to do the Save Our Kids campaign that came after the September 2002 death of the other girl. They had a conference because of the local suicide of Nicola Raphael, and made changes because of it. Thus it had a lasting effect. Dream Focus 20:48, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::Again: A local meeting was not held as you state "because of the local suicide of Nicola Raphael" but was held because of numerous suicides throughout the UK. Please cite what changes were made? What was the lasting effect? — CactusWriter (talk) 21:33, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.