Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sulaiman Ismail

{{AFD help}}

:{{la|1=Sulaiman Ismail}} – (View AfDView log | edits since nomination)

:({{Find sources AFD|title=Sulaiman Ismail}})

No notable career achievements that can be verified. News coverage is nonexistent. He is the brother of Rocket Ismail, however per WP:BLPRELATED, that is irrelevant. 162 etc. (talk) 22:05, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, American football, and Pennsylvania. Shellwood (talk) 22:15, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Martial arts and Texas. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 02:38, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete My search didn't find significant independent coverage that meets WP:GNG and the article has none. His football career was not WP notable nor were his forays into competitive martial arts. Papaursa (talk) 22:37, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
• Delete No notable achievements, only played collegial and amateur in MMA. Also having a "black belt" is not sufficient for wiki notability. fails WP:SPORTS, WP:MMA and fails WP:GNG. Lekkha Moun (talk) 06:41, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep, plenty of coverage to pass GNG: [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-times-leader/158874171/ 1990 (Times-Leader)], [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-times-leader/158874031/ 1991 (Times-Leader)], [https://www.newspapers.com/article/citizens-voice/158874056/ 1991 (Citizens' Voice)], [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-post-standard/158874219/ 1997 (Post-Standard)], [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-times-leader/158874248/ 2001 (Times-Leader)], [https://www.newspapers.com/article/citizens-voice/158874268/ 2002 (Citizens' Voice)], [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-times-leader/158874307/ 2012 (Times-Leader)], [https://www.newspapers.com/search/results/?keyword=Sulaiman+Ismail etc.] {{ping|Papaursa|Lekkha Moun|162 etc.}} BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
• :I mean, yes he's being written about, but is it anything actually notable?
• :1990 - Suspended from high school football team
• :1991 - Excelled at high school track meet
• :1997 - Won a low-level boxing match
• :2001 - Signed an AFL contract (nb: ultimately did not play)
• :2002 - Charged after allegedly punching a DEA agent
• :2012 - Scheduled for upcoming low-level MMA event
• :Does that mean he should be in an encyclopedia? What exactly is his claim to notability? 162 etc. (talk) 17:24, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

:::Actually, he received a "bloody beating" according to that 1997 article. According to boxrec.com he lost both of his pro boxing fights. That coverage was essentially a report in a Syracuse paper on a bottom of the card fight in Syracuse. Otherwise, all of the other sources are from two Wilkes-Barre papers where he lived. None of which appear to be notable coverage, plus multiple references from the same source count as 1 source (at most). Competing in amateur MMA fights has never shown WP notability. Still not seeing WP:GNG, or any SNG, being met. Papaursa (talk) 22:45, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

:::: Whether you think that his accomplishments are insignificant is irrelevant; whether he meets the MMA SNG is also irrelevant – the only factor that goes into determining notability at this point is whether the coverage is significant. That's it. GNG makes no mention of "exceptions" on if the coverage is for MMA fights – the only thing that matters is if there's "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Feature stories like [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-times-leader/158874248/ this] are clearly SIGCOV and being local is irrelevant (not to mention there was other articles I didn't list, including a few stories from Texas). He meets GNG – he's notable. BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:08, 12 November 2024 (UTC)\

:::::There are millions of articles on people in small town papers who aspire to be professional singers, athletes, actors, etc. Even though they never succeed, you're claiming that coverage is sufficient to show WP notability? Or are you influenced because he has notable brothers (which should have no impact on his notability)? I never claimed MMA notability was required, but some kind of achievement is, or at least coverage that is more significant than millions of others in the world have received. Papaursa (talk) 21:02, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

:::::: {{tq|There are millions of articles on people in small town papers ... you're claiming that coverage is sufficient to show WP notability?}} According to WP:GNG, significant coverage is sufficient. The notability guidelines mention nothing of excluding coverage for accomplishments if one (arbitrarily) deems them as insignificant. Additionally, I don't think that there's "millions" of people who "never succeed in their aspirations" who receive feature stories in moderately large newspapers in several states across the U.S. (Texas, Pennsylvania, New York, etc.) BeanieFan11 (talk) 21:23, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Keep Passes GNG. The first few of BeanieFan11's sources look like they're from high school but the others look okay. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 00:45, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep Passes WP:SIGCOV based on the sources provided by Beanie. There’s sufficiently detailed press coverage across time to meet our general notability guidelines. SNGs like the one on MMA are only one pathway to notability, and those guidelines are not meant to replace and subvert GNG. Also, any article meeting GNG in athletics will meet WP:SPORTSBASIC which this article does.4meter4 (talk) 16:15, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

:

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Cheerio, Mattdaviesfsic. About me; Talk to me. Farewell fellow editor... 00:34, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

• Delete The sources are problematic. The 'Times Leader' is the 'Wilkes-Barre Pennsylvania Times Leader', a local newspaper. Similarly The Citizen of Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania. The Syracuse Post Standard is similarly not the New York Times. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 06:49, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
• Suggesting the sources are "problematic" because several are local is not supported by any policy. Furthermore, suggesting that one needs to have coverage in The New York Times to be notable is also ridiculous. BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:36, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep: The sources provided by BeanieFan11 contain the needed WP:SIGCOV to meet the WP:GNG as they each contain multiple sentences of independent coverage. We don't need every subject to be covered by the NYT to have an article about them. Let'srun (talk) 04:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
• Keep: Enough SigCov to pass WP:GNG is mentioned by @BeanieFan11.--— MimsMENTOR ^talk 16:27, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.