Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Temmie Chang

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:{{la|1=Temmie Chang}} – (View AfDView log | edits since nomination)

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This biography of a living person was published with no sources, and is promotional and unencyclopedic in tone but has citations now.A ProQuest search yields 11 hits, all of which are brief mentions of her as a collaborator with Toby Fox and contributor of artwork to his video game, Undertale. A Google search yields more, but these do not meet Wikipedia standards for reliability (see WP:RELIABLESOURCES) and do not contribute to notability in the Wikipedia sense. Does not meet WP:BASIC, let alone WP:GNG. Cielquiparle (talk) 04:53, 28 December 2024 (UTC)Cielquiparle (talk) 08:45, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Women, Video games, and Visual arts. Cielquiparle (talk) 04:53, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

:Redirect to Escaped Chasm. I've done source searching for her in the past out of curiosity regarding if she could have an article or not. She's not notable, and I don't think an argument could be made for her to pass WP:NARTIST either. So, with that being said, redirect this article to Escaped Chasm, which is a game that she created and actually has an article. λ NegativeMP1 04:57, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Artists, Businesspeople, Taiwan, and New York. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 07:27, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

• Delete Unsourced WP:BLP. Sadly the page history shows this was never close to being adequately sourced. A redirect or merge to Escaped Chasm is not ideal as it doesn't contain biographical information and isn't the thing Chang is most known for, but is better than nothing! ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 21:04, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
• Keep Meets WP:NCREATIVE #3 as she played a major role in co-creating Undertale as its lead artist and concept artist, which some might call one of the best known indie games ever made without hyperbole, as well as Deltarune with a similar role. If Escaped Chasm is actually notable, it would give further credence to her being a notable creative. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 01:35, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
• :Unfortunately most of the coverage on Undertale focuses on Toby and mentions Temmie's role only very briefly (plus the fact that there is a creature named after her). Cielquiparle (talk) 02:08, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
• :This is completely wrong. Temmie is not regarded as a co-creator of Undertale, and she is only discussed as the artist for that game on the Undertale article (where she is covered in one sentence of the articles body). I also don't think NCREATIVE is valid here because of WP:INHERITED, due to the aforementioned lack of commentary about Temmie Chang's role in the game. There are practically zero reliable sources that discuss her as a person. λ NegativeMP1 02:19, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

:Redirect per NegativeMP. The page, as is, should be deleted due to the complete absence of sources. Madeleine (talk) 16:40, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

• Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. The subject passes Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria, which says:

  People are presumed {{strong|notable}} if they have received significant coverage in {{strong|multiple published}} {{strong|secondary sources}} that are {{strong|reliable}}, {{strong|intellectually independent}} of each other, and {{strong|independent of the subject}}.

  • If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability.

  Sources

  1. {{cite book |last=Benoit-Gonin |first=Corentin |date=2023 |title=L' anomalie Undertale Décryptage d'un Jeu Monstre |trans-title=The Undertale Anomaly: Decoding a Monster Game |language=fr |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Hx_gEAAAQBAJ&pg=PT15 |location=Namur |publisher=Third Éditions |via=Google Books |page= |isbn=978-2-37784-433-3 |accessdate=2024-12-30 }}

     The book discusses her on 3.25 pages. The book notes: "TEMMIE CHANG Certes, Undertale représente surtout le fruit de l'imagination de Toby Fox. Mais dire qu'il est le seul artisan du titre est exagéré. Parlons de Temmie Chang, ou Tuyoki, comme elle se fait souvent appeler en ligne. Née en 1993, elle a deux ans de moins que Fox et récolte une part importante des lauriers matérialisés par le jeu. Temmie Chang se découvre une passion pour les univers vidéo-ludiques très tôt, à l'époque où elle regardait son cousin jouer à Breath of Fire, un classique du J-RPG sur Super NES. L'ambiance lui tape dans l'œil, et plus encore le pixel art, tant ce style graphique se révèle capable de convoyer beaucoup d'émotions en montrant très peu. Autour de 2006, elle commence à comprendre qu'il est possible de produire de l'art numérique et de le partager sur Internet, notamment sur un site qui prend de plus en plus d'ampleur, DeviantArt. Sa famille l'encourage à poursuivre dans cette voie, ce qui la pousse à travailler son coup de stylet. En parallèle, d'autres créations pixelisées débarquent en ligne, par exemple les titres de 2004 Yume Nikki et Cave Story - ne vous en faites pas, on va très bientôt recroiser le chemin de ces deux-là dans ce livre – et avec eux de véritables fandoms12 dont les membres fournissent de magnifiques illustrations et de formidables petits métrages d'animation. ... Le refus de cette vision étriquée, mais répandue, de l'art la fait hésiter à se professionnaliser, mais elle opte finalement pour une formation en animation 2D qu'elle suit au Pratt Institute, un établissement à New York."

     From Google Translate: "TEMMIE CHANG Of course, Undertale is mostly the fruit of Toby Fox's imagination. But to say that he is the sole creator of the title would be an exaggeration. Let's talk about Temmie Chang, or Tuyoki, as she often goes by online. Born in 1993, she is two years younger than Fox and reaps a significant share of the game's laurels. Temmie Chang discovered her passion for video game universes very early on, when she watched her cousin play Breath of Fire, a classic J-RPG on Super NES. The atmosphere caught her eye, and even more so pixel art, as this graphic style is capable of conveying a lot of emotion by showing very little. Around 2006, she began to understand that it was possible to produce digital art and share it on the Internet, particularly on a site that was gaining momentum, DeviantArt. Her family encouraged her to continue in this direction, which pushed her to work on her pen stroke. At the same time, other pixelated creations arrived online, for example the 2004 titles Yume Nikki and Cave Story - don't worry, we'll soon cross paths with these two in this book - and with them real fandoms12 whose members provided magnificent illustrations and great short animated films. ... The rejection of this narrow but widespread vision of art made her hesitate to become a professional, but she finally opted for training in 2D animation that she followed at the Pratt Institute, an establishment in New York."

  2. {{cite news |last=Ayub |first=Simon |date=2020-11-04 |title=Temmie Chang: 10 facts you should know about the Undertale animator |url=https://www.tuko.co.ke/388571-temmie-chang-10-facts-undertale-animator.html |website=Tuko.co.ke |accessdate=2024-12-30 |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20241230104011/https://www.tuko.co.ke/388571-temmie-chang-10-facts-undertale-animator.html |archivedate=2024-12-30 }}

     The Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism [https://reutersinstitute.politics.ox.ac.uk/digital-news-report/2023/kenya said], "In the online space, the digital native Tuko's mix of celebrity, entertainment, and political news with a light touch has proved successful." The article's tone is very positive about Temmie Chang. The article notes: "Temmie Chang was born on April 2, 1993, in Brooklyn, New York. This means that the talented animator is 27 years old as of 2020. The name Temmie was her grandmother's nickname. There is not much information about Temmie Chang’s parents and childhood. However, it is known that she graduated from the Pratt Institute in New York, which is a senior, private non-profit learning centre. Temmie graduated from the institution with a degree in 2D animation. This must have been the stepping stone to her remarkable career achievements in graphic designing and animation."

  There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Temmie Chang to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

  Cunard (talk) 10:46, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

:Not convinced that Tuko.co.ke is a reliable source. But the book published by Third Editions looks like it could pass. Did you find any other sources? Cielquiparle (talk) 11:16, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

::The other sources I found were passing mentions. Tuko.co.ke has not been discussed at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard so it is unclear whether it is reliable. In my research, the website shows signs of reliability based on Wikipedia:Reliable sources#News organizations. The website [https://www.tuko.co.ke/about-us/ has editorial oversight] and [https://www.tuko.co.ke/policies-and-standards/ editorial standards]. The website publishes corrections like [https://www.tuko.co.ke/editorial/509657-correction-apology-yesu-wa-tongaren-story-published-june-8-2023/ this one]. Tuko.co.ke has been cited in numerous books such as [https://books.google.com/books?id=TZ3SDwAAQBAJ&pg=RA17-PA2039 The Oxford Handbook of Kenyan Politics] (Oxford University Press), [https://books.google.com/books?id=MaC8DwAAQBAJ&pg=PT210 Kenyan, Christian, Queer: Religion, LGBT Activism, and Arts of Resistance in Africa] (Penn State University Press), [https://books.google.com/books?id=bE7VDwAAQBAJ&pg=RA2-PA1936 Understanding the Higher Education Market in Africa] (Taylor & Francis), [https://books.google.com/books?id=9dWLDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA19 To be Or Not to be: Sudan at Crossroads: a Pan-African Perspective: a Black African Nation Undone by the Ideology of Islamo-Arabism] (Mkuki na Nyota), [https://books.google.com/books?id=CgymEAAAQBAJ&pg=PT96 Doing Business in Kenya: Opportunities and Challenges] (Taylor & Francis), and [https://books.google.com/books?id=XDKIDQAAQBAJ&pg=PA214 Digital Kenya: An Entrepreneurial Revolution in the Making] (Palgrave Macmillan). Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism [https://reutersinstitute.politics.ox.ac.uk/sites/default/files/2024-06/DNR%202024%20Final%20lo-res-compressed.pdf says] on page 156, "Traditional media houses also face competition online from digital-born websites such as Tuku.co.ke, which reaches around 70% of our online sample each week. Much of its content is focused on entertainment and gossip attracting a younger audience. Tuku.co.ke also has a reputation for breaking and frequently updated news, which many older outlets struggle to match." Cunard (talk) 12:01, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

:::Tuku.co.ke a gossip website and one of many on the Internet generating clickbait about living people with headlines like the one you've found here ("10 things you didn't know about $LIVING PERSON"). We can take it to the reliable sources noticeboard if you want, but I will remove it from the article for now, as it doesn't seem right for Wikipedia to be legitimizing these gossip/spam sites in biographies of living persons per WP:BLP. Cielquiparle (talk) 03:02, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

• Changing !vote to keep per WP:HEY. Easily meets WP:BASIC between her biography in the Third Editions book (found by Cunard) and multiple reviews of her own "solo" games in independent secondary sources, including Escaped Chasm and Dweller's Empty Path. All the subjective and unverified information has now been removed from the article, and all the facts that are there have citations. Additional personal details could be added with great care if they can be verified per WP:ABOUTSELF, adhering to the basic rules of WP:BLPSOURCES. Pinging {{yo|NegativeMP1|Vrxces|Madeleine961}} for possible reconsideration in light of new sources found and added. Cielquiparle (talk) 08:47, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
• Thank you very much for expanding the article with additional sources. Even without the Tuko.co.ke source, I agree these additional sources allow Temmie Chang to easily meet WP:NBASIC. Cunard (talk) 14:14, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
• :Ehh... I'm still not too convinced. This looks to be a singular paragraph worth of secondary coverage, unless there is something I am missing. λ NegativeMP1 18:06, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
• Keep - the article is now in much better shape, and I'd consider the sources to be sufficient to establish WP:N for the subject. Cheers, SunloungerFrog (talk) 08:53, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
• Keep I find the sources linked in this discussion to adequately demonstrate the subject's notability. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 21:51, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
• Keep in light of the sourcing provided given WP:HEY. I've struck out the vote above. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 00:53, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.