Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Thimio Gogozoto (2nd nomination)

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. –MuZemike 01:30, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

[[Thimio Gogozoto]]=

AfDs for this article:

{{Special:Prefixindex/Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Thimio Gogozoto}}

:{{la|Thimio Gogozoto}} – (View AfDView log{{•}} {{plainlink|1=http://toolserver.org/~betacommand/cgi-bin/afdparser?afd={{urlencode:Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Thimio Gogozoto (2nd nomination)}}|2=AfD statistics}})

:({{Find sources|Thimio Gogozoto}})

This is a procedural re-listing, per the outcome of this deletion review. The main justification for reconsideration was based on the argument that a reference purporting to verify a posthumous military award (which may have also provided more in-depth coverage as well) was not considered in the closing of the AfD (as well as other concerns regarding sock-puppetry and other misbehavior). There was considerable debate whether or not this award met the criteria for WP:MILPEOPLE (which it itself merely an essay), or if the cited coverage was substantial enough for WP:BIO and/or WP:N. This determination was complicated by the fact that the sources are both non-English and offline. As this is a procedural listing, I am neutral. IronGargoyle (talk) 16:57, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:07, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albania-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:07, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Spain-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
Keep He has been decorated by the People's Republic of Albania on 1962 with the highest award for an Albanian who has given his life for a cause other than the Albanian cause; passes WP:MILPEOPLE. Cheers. kedadial 23:29, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Delete No significant coverage in any sources, even non-English ones, his name is just listed along with many others. Fails both WP:BIO and WP:N. Regarding the award, all we have to go on is the word of several Albanian users. And even then he does not pass WP:MILPEOPLE. Athenean (talk) 00:23, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Delete: Since there is not a SINGLE additional argument provided after the 1st nomination (Apart from User:Zjarri's attempt to misinform the community) I'm voting for deletion as per previous arguments. Also the supposed medal he got wasn't the country's highest award (doesn't meet wp:n for sure)Alexikoua (talk) 07:59, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

:Comment: Which attempt to misinform the community? What is this accusation? Can you provide a diff about when he tried to misinform anybody? As far as I remember, the main problem for this relist was that user:CrazyMartini, a sock, but now readmitted had voted in the process. In addition two Greek users (Megistias and Michael X the White) resurrected from the dead just to vote for the deletion of this article. Indeed they had been idle for awhile. --_Sulmues^{Let's talk} 14:25, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

::(Ignore wp:npas vios) The reason the we have a 2nd nomination is because http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2010_June_8&diff=368935432&oldid=368205717 the lack of a reference was explicitly mentioned by the closing admin as the reason for deletion, a relist to evaluate the new (?) source provided by ZjarriRrethus will be helpful. I note also that a participant in the debate wrote "Keep if [the medal] can be verified". (19 June). Zjarris "new" source (doesn't meet wp:verify -its offline) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thimio_Gogozoto&diff=next&oldid=366347069) about the medal was added on 6 June. The afd closed on 8 June http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Thimio_Gogozoto&diff=366729925&oldid=366660179 with the reason that "Lacking a citation for that medal, there's nothing here." The closing admin, was full aware of this 'source' and gave this answer http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Shimeru&diff=366810115&oldid=366745502. Now we have a second nomination without additional sources and arguments.Alexikoua (talk) 22:18, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

:::So basically if Zjarri will be online in the next 6 days he'll scan the book and we keep the article. Let's see if we'll be lucky. --_Sulmues^{Let's talk} 22:20, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

::::You forgot to say that this medal isn't Albanian's highest honor, so even if he scans it, it will not pass wp:n. (You are informed about this in the relist discussion).Alexikoua (talk) 22:24, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Delete : As in the first nomination, we have not One source to make him notable. A medal we can't verify, moreover, as stated,this medal was not the country's highest award.CrazyMartini (talk) 16:52, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
Keep Passes Wikipedia:BIO#Any_biography point 1. As I said in the relist procedure [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ADeletion_review%2FLog%2F2010_June_8&action=historysubmit&diff=368144479&oldid=368069955], Gogozoto cannot be held to pass notability through MILPEOPLE, because the Spanish War is a sui generis case. In case this AfD should decide for deletion, which I would find very odd, we'll create an article on the list of the fallen Albanians in the Spanish War and Thimio will redirect there. However, I think he deserves an article as the only hero in the Spanish War from Chameria. I'm sure other material will be added to the article in the future. --_Sulmues^{Let's talk} 09:26, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

::Comment: A redirection is appropriate, since wp:MILPEOPLE and BIO#Any_biography prohibits creation of such articles (wiki policy doesn't agree that if he is from Chameria he deserves his own article).Alexikoua (talk) 09:39, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

:::I said Keep, because Gogozoto meets BIO#Any_biography which says: The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor. He has received many post mortem awards, the highest of which is Per Merita Patriotike, the highest that could have been received for an Albanian for deeds unrelated to Albania. --_Sulmues^{Let's talk} 10:25, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

::::Very well you misuse now wp:BIO#Any_biography in order to claim that wp:MILPEOPLE is nonsense.Alexikoua (talk) 10:59, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

:::::I beg your pardon? I'm not misusing any wiki policies: I think Gogozoto clearly passes wp:BIO#Any_biography, and as I already explained my stand on WP:MILPEOPLE during the relisting process, MILPEOPLE IMO doesn't apply to Gogozoto. Hope this is more clear. --_Sulmues^{Let's talk} 16:23, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

::::::It's a very weird argument, according to this logic every single soldier (also auxiliary personnel, nurses etc.) that fought at wwi should have an article here, since they got this medal (some 10million people).Alexikoua (talk) 16:53, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Delete per Athenean. A Macedonian (talk) 22:07, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
Delete per Athenean. Fails on requisites, both of sources and being notable.Megistias (talk) 05:49, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
Delete per Athenean good explanation. --Tadija^speaks 19:17, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.