Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Thodoris Moschonas

:{{la|Thodoris Moschonas}} – (View AfDView log{{•}} {{plainlink|1=http://toolserver.org/~betacommand/cgi-bin/afdparser?afd={{urlencode:Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Thodoris Moschonas}}|2=AfD statistics}})

:({{Find sources|Thodoris Moschonas}})

Has yet to make his professional debut. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Marcus Qwertyus 00:31, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:He is an international footballer and i have included source from the Greek Football Federation(Epo) Ican include more greek sources that state the date he signed his contract and more if you'd like. Axaxouxas (talk) 00:36, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:Also the teams N.Ionia and Elpidoforos where he has played are semi-professional. I have sources for that and game sheets for that as well. I can put tens of them if you want.Axaxouxas (talk) 00:40, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

::Yes that would be helpful. Marcus Qwertyus 00:43, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

::Of course I know nothing of Greek football so I'll leave this to the experts. Marcus Qwertyus 01:01, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:::OK, just added some match reports and a news report about the signing of his professional contract. Hope that's enough cause if it's not please delete the article. Till today I was just a reader of wikipedia and I have seen hundreds of articles about established footballers that are wrong and not considered for deletion. Why are you so strict about an article on a youngster? Axaxouxas (talk) 01:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

::::Nothing personal, it's just business :). Marcus Qwertyus 01:07, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:::::I know. is it OK now?Axaxouxas (talk) 01:11, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

::::::I don't know. I know nothing of Greek football. Give it a week and we'll see. Marcus Qwertyus 01:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. —Jogurney (talk) 02:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
• Delete - I can find no evidence that Moschonas has ever played in a fully-pro league or at a senior international level. A google news search for Θεόδωρος Μοσχονάς only yielded very routine mentions of his signing a contract with AEK or going on loan to semi-pro clubs. Article doesn't appear to pass WP:NSPORTS or WP:GNG. Jogurney (talk) 02:21, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
• OK, that guy is an international, contracted at a top Greek club that plays in Europe, respresented Greece at u-19 level and has to be deleted. Fair enough. What about this guy? No professional appearances, no international, contracted at the fifth(!!!) division of England but no problem as it seems

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andre_Blackman

What about this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Bouzanis He didn't make any professional appearances till this year but had a wikipedia entry since 2007!!!! Bonus: He was Moschonas' substitute at Greece U-19...

I really can't unterstand the criteria —Preceding unsigned comment added by Axaxouxas (talk • contribs) 06:17, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

• Some more:

No professional appearances: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corry_Evans

No professional appearances: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_King_%28footballer%29

No professional appearances: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauri_Dalla_Valle Axaxouxas (talk) 06:41, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

::WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS is not a valid keep argument--ClubOranje^T 08:24, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

::Corry Evans played for Northern Ireland at the [http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/8087413.stm senior] level. Joshua King [http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/league_cup/8257293.stm played] for Manchester United in the League Cup. So, both meet the football criteria for inclusion. Neither is comparable to Moschonas. Patken4 (talk) 00:24, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:46, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
• Comment - Evans has four full international caps. King and Blackman have both made one professional appearance and the article states this. Bouzanis and Dalla Valle both passed AfDs on the basis that they passed the general notability guideline, which takes precedence over failing WP:NSPORT -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:46, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
• Delete fails notability criteria for footballers, coverage is all match reports and general sports journalism as expected of any footballer nearing the verge of possible professionalism. Age group representation is not considered inherently notable, hasn't played professionally, fails WP:GNG. In short, done nothing encyclopaedically notable.--ClubOranje^T 08:24, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

• OK, that was a stupid argument about the other players. Since you the experts agree that it has to be deleted, you must be right. And now a noob question please, when he does make a professional appearance someone will have to write an article all over again or the things I have written will be saved somewhere? Sorry for your time but having read so much crap overtime in wikipedia I thought you were very strict on me for some reason. Now i realize this is not the case.Axaxouxas (talk) 16:01, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

:*It can be saved as a userspace draft for the time being. Let me know if you need help. Marcus Qwertyus 18:24, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

::Alternatively it can be restored to its current state at that time by any WP:ADMINISTRATOR if you simply ask, even after deletion--ClubOranje^T 20:10, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
• Delete fails WP:ATHLETE and WP:GNG. GiantSnowman 08:42, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
• Delete, as he fails WP:ATHLETE and WP:GNG. --Carioca (talk) 23:01, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.