Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Timeline of LGBT history in Alberta

{{AFD help}}

:{{la|Timeline of LGBT history in Alberta}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [https://tools.wmflabs.org/jackbot/snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Timeline_of_LGBT_history_in_Alberta Stats])

:({{Find sources AFD|Timeline of LGBT history in Alberta}})

Content fork of Timeline of LGBT history in Canada, with no clear reason why a separate province-specific list is needed. This comprises far too many events that aren't important or noteworthy at all, including the founding dates of gay-straight alliances at individual high schools, the sexual orientations of unsuccessful and therefore non-notable individual candidates in provincial legislature and city council elections, municipal proclamations of local Pride Weeks (and not just the first time, either, but the annual repetition of every time, even long after such things have become entirely uncontroversial and routinely expected), minor fundraising galas, the hirings of non-notable individual contributors to Calgary's local LGBT publication, and other such unencyclopedic WP:TRIVIA — and while some events are genuinely important (e.g. Vriend v Alberta), virtually all of those are already reflected in the Canada timeline, and if the national timeline is actually missing any genuinely important Alberta events, those can easily be added to it. Furthermore, I can find no evidence that any other Canadian province or American state has its own dedicated LGBT history timeline as a separate topic from the national one, and there's no credible reason why Alberta should stand out as a topic of special treatment denied any other state or province. There's simply no need for this to be forked out from the national Canada timeline at all. Bearcat (talk) 17:40, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions. Bearcat (talk) 17:40, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Alberta-related deletion discussions. Bearcat (talk) 17:44, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

So I feel like you don't understand the significance of queer and trans and two-spirit history and don't understand that of the many many entries in the main Canadian LGBT history page take place in Toronto and Montreal exclusively. Only eleven of the events from this article are featured in the heavily Ontario and Quebec centric main article. This means there is a dearth of regional representation, which this article is aiming to combat. LGBT history happens outside of two cities and we have to have this kind of representation out there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Klaas89 (talk • contribs) 19:50, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

::I'm a gay man myself, so kindly stuff your presuppositions about what I do or don't "understand" the significance of in your nearest garbage can. Trust me, I've got way more to teach you about queer history than you'll ever have to teach me. (Just as a frex, if you think I've got some kind of bias against non-Toronto topics, you might want to take a gander at who started our articles about the Calgary, Edmonton, Regina, Saskatoon and Winnipeg Prides, most of the LGBT film festivals across Canada, western-based queer/trans writers like Michael V. Smith and Raziel Reid and Colin Thomas and Janine Fuller and Persimmon Blackbridge and Casey Plett and Amber Dawn and Nancy Jo Cullen and Debra Anderson and Carellin Brooks, and activists like Delwin Vriend and Jim Egan.)

::If there are any important events missing from the Canada list, you're more than free to add them to it at any time. But kindly note that "important events" does not include the sexual orientations of unsuccessful candidates for political office who aren't historic firsts, the annual relisting of every city's local pride festival anytime after the first, the establishment of individual high schools' local GSAs, non-notable people joining the staffs of non-notable magazines, LGBTQ organizations simply changing their names, the opening or closure of every individual Priape location as a separate entry from the bankruptcy of the Priape chain as a whole, every individual grand marshal of every Pride parade every year, and on and so forth. Too many of the things listed here are entirely unimportant trivia, and the ones that are genuinely important enough to be noted are all either (a) already in the Canada list, or (b) easily addable to the Canada list if properly sourced as significant. Nobody said "queer history only happens in Toronto and Montreal" — for starters, Toronto and Montreal don't have their own dedicated queer history timelines separate from the Canadian one either, the only thing they have is more people actually adding stuff to the national list than other cities or provinces have yet (and I personally add west-based events to it all the time, if they're properly sourceable as significant). It's not a reason why Alberta needs its own Alberta-specific list; it's a reason to contribute to the improvement of the national list with additional properly sourced entries about notable events. Bearcat (talk) 18:38, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

• Keep. Looking through RS, I find enough historical info to justify this article passing GNG as well as enough specific to Alberta to justify this page not being merged to the Candian LGBT timeline page. There are multiple sections in these books [https://books.google.ca/books?id=k4llDwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=lgbt+Alberta&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwito7naxrrjAhWBAHwKHRpQCWEQ6AEIVTAI#v=onepage&q&f=false here], [https://books.google.ca/books?id=uwRbCAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=lgbt+Alberta&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwito7naxrrjAhWBAHwKHRpQCWEQ6AEIMTAB#v=onepage&q&f=false here] and [https://books.google.ca/books?id=dxBaDwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=lgbt+Alberta&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwito7naxrrjAhWBAHwKHRpQCWEQ6AEINjAC#v=onepage&q&f=false here] specific to this topic. There are also many RS news articles covering historical LGBT events in Alberta with discussions of their lasting impacts. As for other provinces/states not having their own articles, that is not an indication of whether this particular article passes wikipedia guidelines. Instead it just means that articles for other provinces may likely pass GNG as well and be welcome additions to wikipedia if someone were to make them. Rab V (talk) 23:32, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

::I do want to agree with Bearcat though that I think some entries on the timeline as currently written may not be notable enough or may need more support from RS. But as a whole, that is better solved by editing the article since there is enough on this topic to justify the article not being deleted. Rab V (talk) 23:39, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

• Delete per Bearcat and WP:Indiscriminate. It was stated that "There are multiple sections in these books here, here and here specific to this topic." Actually only the latter two of those books have table-of-contents level sections about Alberta specifically, and they each only have one. Of those, the first is more about activism than history, and the other is just part of a chapter and appears to be just about how Catholic schools in Alberta have addressed LGBT students. In no way is there significant coverage of LGBT history in Alberta as a topic in its own right. I don't see any justification for having separate articles on LGBT history for every province, state, city, etc. -Crossroads- (talk) 14:14, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.