Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vincent Confait#c-BeanieFan11-20250414003500-LibStar-20250414003200

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:{{la|1=Vincent Confait}} – (View AfDView log | edits since nomination)

:({{Find sources AFD|title=Vincent Confait}})

Declined prod. There are 3 non-database/results sources. [https://nation.sc/archive/213524/athletics-cup-competition-jaffa-and-confait-register-10000m-hand-timing-records This] one isn't SIGCOV as it's 2 small 1 line mentions. [https://nation.sc/archive/249697/memorial-service-for-alex-confait-who-died-in-the-flydubai-aircraft-which-crashed-in-the-southern-russian-city-of-rostov-on-don- This] and [http://www.seychellesnewsagency.com/articles/4814/Seychellois+Flydubai+crew+member+among+Russia+crash+fatalities this] are about his son dying and not SIGCOV about Vincent. Fails WP:SPORTSCRIT. Medalling in Indian Ocean Island Games is not considered a top tier competition for WP:NATH. LibStar (talk) 00:32, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Olympics, Sport of athletics, and Africa. LibStar (talk) 00:32, 14 April 2025 (UTC)
• What's the point of mass AFDing substantially improved articles mere minutes after they're improved? Can't you just focus on worse quality articles instead of obsessing over getting everything improved by a particular user deleted? BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:35, 14 April 2025 (UTC)
• :This was not substantially improved as it is lacking in third party indepth sources. My nomination stands and you won't deter me. LibStar (talk) 00:37, 14 April 2025 (UTC)
• :: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vincent_Confait&diff=1285488391&oldid=1285045341 This] is absolutely a substantial improvement. In what way would deleting this improve the encyclopedia? BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:38, 14 April 2025 (UTC)
• :::It still is lacking in indepth third party coverage. I've already commented how the added third party sources are not SIGCOV. LibStar (talk) 00:40, 14 April 2025 (UTC)
• :::: In what way would deleting this improve the encyclopedia? BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:41, 14 April 2025 (UTC)
• Keep: I think it's a weak case but the Nation coverage gets close to WP:SIGCOV and I think the ongoing coverage of his career (plus his medals at the Indian Ocean Island Games and appearances at two Olympic games make it very likely that contemporary WP:SIGCOV of his career exists. The fact that he competed in two Olympiads makes it harder to select a redirect as an AtD, and while it is not immediately apparent that he passes WP:NTRACK he appears to have been a dominant athlete in Seychelles during his career. Dclemens1971 (talk) 02:14, 14 April 2025 (UTC)
• Weak Keep: Per WP:HEY, article has been expanded with WP:SIGCOV from Nation discussing the subject. Let'srun (talk) 19:41, 14 April 2025 (UTC)
• Keep, per found coverage in the Nation and WP:NBASIC. And its obvious that a two-time Olympian with nearly two dozen national championship wins and many records, who competed in the offline era, would have further coverage in Seychellois archives. BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:48, 14 April 2025 (UTC)
• Keep per very nice expansion work by Habst. The Seychelles Nation obit appears to provide the needed SIGCOV. Cbl62 (talk) 00:21, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• Delete - What am I missing here? Most of the sources are just listings, which clearly don't count. The reports of his death are the only sources that contain any biographical information about him at all, but these are reports occasioned by the crash, and neither leads on him being an athlete. The Seychelles news agency report doesn't mention the fact at all, and the Seychelles Nation report just has his mother's words: "Not only was he an athlete who did the hurdles, long jump and long distance running, he was also involved in officiating. He also took part in the world airlines athletics competition and came out third in the 5km race of the under-24 year-old category in a time of 24 minutes". But, in fact, both articles are only about him because, sadly, he died when he was employed as a crew member on a plane that crashed. That is, even the reports of his death fail to give us any evidence that he was a notable athlete. What we are entirely lacking is any kind of secondary source that looks at his life as an athlete. The news of his death is sad to read, but that is not a reason for keeping an article such as this. Wikipedia is not an obituary. I would be open to a suitable redirect as an ATD. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 07:18, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• :I’m assuming you meant his son, Alex Confait, instead of Vincent Confait, right? His son was one of the fatalities in the crash of Flydubai Flight 981, not him. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 08:45, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::Ah, well that's part of what I am missing. Thanks for gently pointing that out. But in that case this even clearer. The only biographical information we have is for his son. There is still nothing in the Seychelles news agency piece at all, and in the Seychelles Nation piece, we are limited to "... Vincent Confait, a former high hurdler who also represented Seychelles at the Olympic Games in Moscow in 1980." This is not SIGCOV, gives no biographical information at all, and the information that his son died in an air accident is primary sourced. The report is primary for the news reporting of the crash. There is nothing here from which a biographical article can be written. We are looking for someone who has written about Vincent Confait's athletic career, and who has analysed and synthesised primary sources into something secondary. We don't have it. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 09:18, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• :::@Sirfurboy, I think this is based upon a misunderstanding. Please see {{Google|"Vincent Confait" site:nation.sc}}, there are dozens of hits (84 by my count) in Google's index of nation.sc alone with much more significant coverage than the Athletics Cup article I included. --Habst (talk) 13:32, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::::And perusing these, I don't see any significant coverage. Do you? We need to discuss sources, not search results. Thanks. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 14:00, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::::: He freaking won 19 national championships and was most certainly one of the very very best in Seychelles in the offline era. Do Nation archives extend back into the 1980s? If not, that means nothing from his era has been checked – do you really think that such an extremely accomplished athlete who still gets discussed today would not have sigcov from his era? BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:03, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::::::Yes. But I will be persuaded otherwise if we can find any sources. We write articles from secondary sources, not gut feeling. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 14:56, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::::::: We can also use common sense (notability/NSPORT is only a guideline), and remember that if we haven't looked at anything from the subject's time period, its silly to say they're non-notable when they still get regularly covered today and have absolutely extensive accomplishments that are virtually guaranteed to have been covered significantly. BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:58, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::::::: And wait, you don't think that Seychelles would cover their best athlete when he competed and won nearly two dozen national titles and many international medals, but then cover him / mention him numerous times when he's years retired??? How does that make any sense? BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:01, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::::::::Oh they will report races. But then WP:PRIMARYNEWS would apply. We are looking for the secondary sourcing, and thus far we have none. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 15:07, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::::::::: Coverage being contemporary does not equate to being primary! BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:09, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::::::::::Which is not what I said. Have a read of WP:PRIMARYNEWS. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 18:39, 18 April 2025 (UTC)
• :::::::::::Reporting on these types of races is almost always not primary because most newspapers include analysis along with results listings. --Habst (talk) 21:03, 20 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::::::::::::You would have a very hard time arguing that point with pretty much any historian. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 22:15, 20 April 2025 (UTC)
• :::::::::::::What would their specific issue be? Per PRIMARYNEWS, {{tq|"Yale University's guide to comparative literature lists newspaper articles as both primary and secondary sources, depending on whether they contain an interpretation of primary source material."}} --Habst (talk) 01:12, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
• ::::::::::::::This discussion is meta. Look, if you don't know that reporting of a race wins are primary sources, you have some reading to do. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 06:16, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
• :::::::::::::::Not all are, but we only need a few with sufficient analysis to achieve notability. --Habst (talk) 13:39, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
• Keep – The present sources are sufficient to establishes WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 16:49, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.