Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vinoo Mankad Trophy

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Under-19 domestic cricket tournament, which fails the inclusion of WP:CRIN. Under-19 domestic tournaments have been determined to be non-notable below international level. These matches do not hold List A status as the editor claims. I have a sneaking suspicion the editor is trying to pass this tournament off as the Vijay Hazare Trophy, which meets WP:CRIN. StickyWicket (talk) 10:09, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. DBigXrayᗙ 10:17, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Cricket-related deletion discussions. DBigXrayᗙ 10:17, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. DBigXrayᗙ 10:17, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

• Keep per WP:GNG and WP:NSPORT as far as WP:CRIN is concerned, it is already discussed and we have a consensus on WikiProject Cricket#Extend WP:CRIN to include competitions that pass GNG and NSPORT. This book{{cite web|url=https://books.google.co.in/books?id=ebQ6DwAAQBAJ&lpg=PT931&dq=vinoo+mankad+trophy&pg=PT931#v=onepage&q=vinoo+mankad+trophy&f=false|title=INDIA 2017 YEARBOOK|first=Mr Rajiv|last=Mehrishi|date=15 October 2017|publisher=McGraw-Hill Education|via=Google Books}} lists out 6 of the important cricket trophies in India and mentions it as national championship for Under 19 age players. (more to be added) --DBigXrayᗙ 10:27, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
• Comment would that consensus be in your head by any chance? I see no such consensus. Perhaps you are the senate? StickyWicket (talk) 12:32, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
• Comment in continuation of the above, This cricket tournament is the highest U19 Domestic level trophy played among the states and organized by the Board of Control for Cricket in India and every match is covered by main stream Indian media and newspapers throughout the country.{{cite web|url=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/surat/surat-to-host-36-matches-of-vinoo-mankad-trophy-from-today/articleshow/66077080.cms|title=Surat to host 36 matches of Vinoo Mankad Trophy from today - Times of India|publisher=}} https://greaterkashmir.com/news/sports/vinoo-mankad-trophy-j-k-under-19-suffer-2nd-consecutive-defeat/299087.html{{cite web|url=https://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-sports/vinoo-mankad-trophy-begins-today/article7740622.ece|title=Vinoo Mankad Trophy begins today|date=9 October 2015|publisher=|via=www.thehindu.com}}{{cite web|url=https://www.livehindustan.com/tags/vinoo-mankad-trophy|title=Vinoo-mankad-trophy Latest news in hindi, Vinoo-mankad-trophy से जुड़ी खबरें, Breaking News, page1|website=www.livehindustan.com}}{{cite web|url=https://www.deccanherald.com/content/637858/karnataka-emerge-vinoo-mankad-champs.html|title=Karnataka emerge Vinoo Mankad champs|date=15 October 2017|publisher=}}{{cite web|url=https://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/82874/board-of-control-for-cricket-in-india-announces-associate-affiliate-squad-for-vinoo-mankad-trophy|title=BCCI announces Associate & Affiliate squad for Vinoo Mankad Trophy|publisher=}}{{cite web|url=https://www.sportskeeda.com/cricket/vinoo-mankad-trophy-karnataka-grab-five-points|title=Vinoo Mankad trophy: Karnataka grab five points|date=20 October 2012|publisher=}}{{cite web|url=https://www.indiatoday.in/sports/cricket/story/india-under-19-vinoo-mankad-trophy-uttar-pradesh-wins-junior-cricket-121323-2012-11-13|title=All India under-19 Vinoo Mankad Trophy: Talent-rich UP extend legacy in junior cricket|website=India Today}}{{cite web|url=https://www.amarujala.com/sports/local-sports/vinoo-mankad-trophy-2018-aryan-sharma-selected-for-up-under-19-cricket-team|title=वीनू मांकड ट्रॉफी: उत्तराखंड के आर्यन शर्मा को उत्तर प्रदेश अंडर-19 टीम की कमान- Amarujala|publisher=}}{{cite web|url=https://indianexpress.com/article/sports/cricket/delhi-u-19-captain-manjot-kalras-age-under-scrutiny-before-vinoo-mankad-trophy-4867650/|title=Delhi U-19 captain Manjot Kalra’s age under scrutiny before Vinoo Mankad Trophy|date=30 September 2017|publisher=}}{{cite web|url=https://www.deccanchronicle.com/sports/cricket/091017/vinoo-mankad-trophy-hyderabad-dish-out-decent-performance.html|title=Vinoo Mankad trophy: Hyderabad dish out decent performance|date=9 October 2017|publisher=}}{{cite web|url=https://sports.ndtv.com/cricket/arjun-tendulkar-takes-five-wicket-haul-as-mumbai-beat-gujarat-in-vinoo-mankad-trophy-1928054|title=Arjun Tendulkar Takes Five-Wicket Haul As Mumbai Beat Gujarat In Vinoo Mankad Trophy – NDTV Sports|first=|last=NDTVSports.com|publisher=}}{{cite web|url=https://sports.ndtv.com/cricket/don-t-want-to-be-carried-away-says-aditya-garhwal-1510517|title=Don't Want to be Carried Away, Says Aditya Garhwal – NDTV Sports|first=|last=NDTVSports.com|publisher=}}{{cite web|url=https://www.ndtv.com/topic/vinoo-mankad|title=Vinoo Mankad: Latest News, Photos, Videos on Vinoo Mankad - NDTV.COM|website=NDTV.com}}--DBigXrayᗙ 14:55, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
• Comment I don't think the discussion referred to above has reached a consensus. I also deleted a load of refs from the article as it seemed to be a WP:REFBOMB. I was going to add them in here to allow others to judge if they prove notability , but I see {{u|DBigXray}} has added them already (whilst there are lots of them, many seem to be WP:ROUTINE) Spike 'em (talk) 15:53, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

::Spike, none of these sources from Mainstream media in India are tabloid or promotional coverage, so your doubts of WP:ROUTINE does not apply to these sources. --DBigXrayᗙ 12:36, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

{{reflist talk}}

• Delete: Fails WP:CRIN. I would prefer keeping only if there is wider consensus to create articles on such subjects. --1990'sguy (talk) 14:34, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Naming a trophy after a notable cricketer in itself does not make the tournament notable. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 09:23, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

::Almost every cricket tournament is named after another famous cricketer, but that is not the point being made here. Article are kept on the notability of their subject (the tournament here) none of the sources I shared above, talk about the "notable cricketer" but instead talk about this tournament. --DBigXrayᗙ 11:46, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

• Keep per {{U|DBigXray}}. We don't need to throw GNG level coverage, (accumulated over years), to the trash to accomodate with a shitty guideline that was thought by a few project-regulars and is implemented with a thorough disregard to common-sense, in a bot-like fashion.I find it ridiculous that the same folks over here who are proposing to delete this were !voting en-masse to keep an article with practically non-existent sourcing, just because it suited their whims aka pet guideline.∯WBG^converse 09:41, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

:*And, what happened to alternatives to deletion? At the very minimum, this can be easily merged somewhere, even if treating NCRIC as a commandment.∯WBG^converse 09:41, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

• Comment In continuation of my keep vote above, adding some more sources (from past 2 weeks, since the AfD) from the Mainstream media in India which are giving a consistent and regular coverage of this tournament.{{cite news |title=Vinoo Mankad Trophy: Comeback-man Mahale, Chavan take Vidarb |url=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/news/vinoo-mankad-trophy-comeback-man-mahale-chavan-take-vidarbha-to-semis/articleshow/66440259.cms |accessdate=4 November 2018 |publisher=The Times of India |date=31 October 2018}}{{cite news |title=Vinoo Mankad Trophy U-19: Paul knock helps Tamil Nadu post four-wicket win |url=http://www.newindianexpress.com/sport/cricket/2018/oct/06/vinoo-mankad-trophy-u-19-paul-knock-helps-tamil-nadu-post-four-wicket-win-1881809.html |accessdate=4 November 2018 |publisher=The New Indian Express |date=6 October 2018}}{{cite news |title=Vinoo Mankad Trophy: Yazh Arun Mozhi helps Tamil Nadu beat Rajasthan |url=http://www.newindianexpress.com/sport/cricket/2018/oct/12/vinoo-mankad-trophy-yazh-arun-mozhi-helps-tamil-nadu-beat-rajasthan-1884397.html |accessdate=4 November 2018 |publisher=The New Indian Express |date=12 October 2018}}{{cite news |title=विनू माकंड़ अंडर 19 ट्रोफी: अर्जुन तेंडुलकर का धमाल जारी, अब 14 रन देकर झटके 3 विकेट (Arjun Tendulkar Takes 3 Wickets As Mumbai Beat Assam In Vinoo Mankad Trophy) |url=https://navbharattimes.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/cricket-news/arjun-tendulkar-takes-3-wickets-as-mumbai-beat-assam-in-vinoo-mankad-trophy/articleshow/66261235.cms |accessdate=4 November 2018 |publisher=Navbharat Times |date=17 October 2018}}{{cite news |title=SZ Vinoo Mankad Trophy from Oct. 20 |url=https://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-sports/SZ-Vinoo-Mankad-Trophy-from-Oct.-20/article15324127.ece |accessdate=4 November 2018 |publisher=The Hindu |date=18 October 2018}}{{cite news |title=वीनू मांकड़ ट्रॉफी: अर्जुन तेंदुलकर की शानदार गेंदबाजी, टीम को दिलाई एकतरफा जीत |url=https://www.livehindustan.com/cricket/story-arjun-tendulkar-outstanding-bowling-helped-mumbai-to-win-over-assam-in-u-19-veenu-mankad-trophy-2227040.html |accessdate=4 November 2018 |publisher=Hindustan Dainik |date=17 October 2018}}{{cite news |title=Leggie Kishan bowls Tamil Nadu to semifinals |url=http://www.newindianexpress.com/sport/other/2018/oct/31/leggie-kishan-bowls-tamil-nadu-to-semifinals-1892251.html |accessdate=4 November 2018 |publisher=The New Indian Express |date=31 October 2018}}{{cite news |title=वीनू मांकड ट्रॉफी: आर्य-अवनीश के शतक से उत्तराखंड की शानदार जीत, अरुणाचल प्रदेश को दी करारी शिकस्त |url=https://www.amarujala.com/sports/local-sports/vinoo-mankad-trophy-2018-uttarakhand-team-beat-arunachal-pradesh-and-win-match |accessdate=4 November 2018 |publisher=Amar Ujala |date=25 October 2018}}{{cite news |title=In Vinoo Mankad trophy, batsman Mankaded for 48 |url=http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/66191100.cms |accessdate=4 November 2018 |publisher=The TImes of India |date=13 October 2018}}{{cite news |title=Vinoo Mankad U-19 Trophy: Nagaland trash Pondicherry by 113 runs |url=http://www.easternmirrornagaland.com/vinoo-mankad-u-19-trophy-nagaland-trash-pondicherry-by-113-runs/ |accessdate=4 November 2018 |publisher=Eastern Mirror |date=14 October 2018}}{{cite news |title=Who will fill in the blanks? |url=https://ahmedabadmirror.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/who-will-fill-in-the-blanks/articleshow/66451286.cms |accessdate=4 November 2018 |publisher=Ahmedabad Mirror |date=1 November 2018}}{{cite news |title=Vinoo Mankad Trophy: TN to meet Rajasthan in semis |url=https://newstodaynet.com/index.php/2018/10/31/vinoo-mankad-trophy-tn-to-meet-rajasthan-in-semis/ |accessdate=4 November 2018}} --DBigXrayᗙ 12:28, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

{{reflist talk}}

• Very weak keep - essentially I'm undecided here so I'd rather see the article kept for now and the wider scope of articles such as these discussed first.

:There is, without doubt, plenty of coverage of the tournament, but all of the referencers we've been given seem to fulfil the definition of WP:ROUTINE - i.e. passing mentions of the tournament in the context of match reports rather than in depth articles about the tournament itself. I suspect the same is true of at least some of the first-class or List A tournaments that we have articles on - we don't have much in the way of in depth references about the Logan Cup or the Ford Trophy (cricket) for example. And we do have articles on subjects such as the Second Eleven Championship, the Minor Counties Championship and the Women's County Championship.

:I'm not sure that WP:CRIN, WP:ATHLETE or WP:ORG really deal with sports leagues at all for what it's worth. Per the GNG I'd prefer that sources were more in depth and dealt specifically with the competition, but if we do that then I think we can't draw a distinction between under-19 competitions, second XI competitions or even first XI competitions where there is little or no detailed coverage. Which is why I tend to think that either WP:CRIN needs to be written in such a way as to include leagues or we need to think about which leagues are actually properly notable and how we go about showing that. Blue Square Thing (talk) 15:41, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

:*All these mainstream national newspapers would not be covering the tournament if its non notable. There is no "One rule for all country" for Baseball. Several baseball tournaments are notable in USA but a similar tournament in other country may not be notable. The coverage in the reliable national media is a perfectly valid scale to gauge the notability in such circumstances. Some of the Delete votes above based on outdated WP:CRIN are akin to saying "Such tournaments are non notable in England, so we have a Policy CRIN that will be applied to all countries, even if it is clearly notable in India and people + Media care about it."--DBigXrayᗙ 15:59, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

::*As I say, I am generally undecided here, but no matter what else applies, there is no doubt in my mind that the coverage meets the definition of WP:ROUTINE and I would prefer if there were in depth sources discussing the competition. Those sources may well exist - I tend to think that they're likely to given the context.

:::Fwiw, my reference to British competitions should be seen as support for this article given that at present we have little more than routine coverage of those competitions cited in the relevant articles. Blue Square Thing (talk) 16:49, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.