Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Washington University of Barbados

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:{{la|1=Washington University of Barbados}} – (View AfDView log | edits since nomination)

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1. A major contributor (and creater) to this seems to have been associated with WUB but most of their contributions seem to be gone now. Without that, I don't think this article would exist today.

2. There are 4 sources. The 1st appears to be a press release of it opening. The second refers to Barbados Community Colllege and not WUB.

3. The Third is focused on the CEO (which makes it read more like a business than a university) being arrested. I'd argue that might be notable on the individual, but not the University.

4. The fourth link is broken.

5. The lack of .edu address coupled with its uncertainty of it being closed (can't find coverage) makes me feel that this fails notability.

6. No results on JStor or NYTimes. Wozal (talk) 19:37, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Education, Schools, Medicine, Caribbean, and Barbados. Wozal (talk) 19:37, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
• Good flag! It appears the university has closed permanently. So the question becomes: Is there enough information about the events that led up to its closure (from reliable, independent sources) to justify an entire article about the fraud? (Looking now...) In any case, if this article is kept, it definitely needs to be reframed. Cielquiparle (talk) 21:47, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
• :By chance, were you able to find anything? Besides the references (NationNews - which seems to be a regional newspaper) in the article already, I couldn't find anything and I'm not sure if this passes WP:DEPTH & the fact that the outcome wasn't covered post-arrest makes me feel like the event itself would also fail WP:PERSISTENCE. Wozal (talk) 23:27, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
• {{ping|Wozal}} Leaning toward rewrite and keep. Per WP:ILLCON, even if WUB itself was not notable as an organization, sources discussing its (alleged) illegal conduct can make it notable according to other guidelines; in this case WP:NCRIME seems appropriate since it's criminal act or likely crime. And per WP:NCRIME, {{tq|If a matter is deemed notable, and to be a likely crime, the article should remain even if it is subsequently found that no crime occurred (e.g., the Runaway bride case) since that would not make the matter less notable.}} Like you, I initially questioned whether WP:PERSISTENCE was met, but given the timeline of coverage below, I think it is. Furthermore, the international dimension to this crime means that it's relevant not only to Barbados and other Caribbean countries with foreign universities and medical schools, but also to the Indian medical students, staff, and their families who were victims. Given that WUB still has a live web site and there are predatory businesses that continue to promote WUB, Wikipedia arguably has a role to play in presenting the facts according to reliable secondary sources.

:*May 16, 2016 – [https://www.barbadosadvocate.com/news/medical-schools-scoping-barbados "Medical schools scoping Barbados", The Barbados Advocate] – passing mention

:*August 4, 2017 – [http://web.archive.org/web/20191213074531/https://barbadostoday.bb/2017/08/04/bad-medicine/amp/ "Bad Medicine", Barbados Today] – 2017 article by Ryan Gilkes reporting that 15 out of 80 students wanted to leave the university, citing mistreatment and questions about its legitimacy, as well as outrage on the part of the university dean who said there were no books in library and no drinking water for students

:*August 15, 2018 – [https://www.barbadosadvocate.com/news/medical-schools-good-move "Medical Schools a Good Move", The Barbados Advocate] – report on school's one-year anniversary celebration

:*September 29, 2018 – [https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/bangalore/consultancy-raided-for-seat-scam/article25084147.ece "Consultancy raided for seat scam", The Hindu] – WUB not mentioned by name but breaking news in national newspaper in India regarding the crime

:*September 30, 2018 – [https://www.deccanherald.com/city/promising-foreign-varsity-695347.html "Medical admissions: firm cheats students of Rs 25 crore", Deccan Herald] – news article in India by Bellie Thomas about the scam and perpretators, doesn't mention WUB specifically

:*October 6, 2018 – [https://stlucia.loopnews.com/content/international-hunt-indian-ceo-university-fraud-ends-barbados-2 "International hunt for Indian CEO in university fraud ends in Barbados", Loop News]

:*October 7, 2018 – [https://www.caribbeannationalweekly.com/caribbean-breaking-news-featured/barbados-police-detain-head-of-offshore-university/ "Barbados police detain head of offshore university", Caribbean National Weekly] – by Natalie Greaves

:*October 8, 2018 – [https://www.ieyenews.com/barbados-fraud-u/ "Barbados: 'Fraud U.'", Cayman iNews]

:*October 8, 2018 – [https://www.nationnews.com/2018/10/08/university-ceo-charged/ "University CEO charged", NationNews]

:*October 8, 2018 – [https://www.inewsguyana.com/university-ceo-accused-of-duping-students-arrested-in-barbados/ "University CEO accused of duping students arrested in Barbados, iNews Guyana]

:*October 11, 2018 – [https://barbados.loopnews.com/content/washington-uni-barbados-saga-red-flag-intl-business-sector "Washington Uni Barbados saga a red flag for int’l business sector", Loop News] – implications for international business sector in Barbados, need for better due diligence, quoting president of Barbados International Business Association

:*October 13, 2018 – [https://www.virginislandsnewsonline.com/domains/virginislandsnewsonline.com/en/news/uwi-head-describes-scandal-at-medical-school-in-barbados-as-embarrassing- "UWI Head Describes Scandal at Medical School in Barbados as Embarrassing", Virgin Islands News Online]

:*October 16, 2018 – [https://barbados.loopnews.com/content/washington-university-barbados-director-ceo-remanded-fraud "Washington University Barbados Director, CEO remanded for fraud", Loop News]

:*October 16, 2018 – [https://barbados.loopnews.com/content/mia-cares-about-washington-university-barbados-students "‘Mia cares’ about Washington University of Barbados students", Loop News] – Prime Minister of Barbados, Mia Mottley, addresses the nation and promises that the Indian university students who were victims of the fraud will be given food, shelter, and assistance

:*October 28, 2018 – [https://www.nationnews.com/2018/10/28/wednesday-deadline/ "Wednesday deadline", NationNews] – 35 university students remain stranded in Barbados with no electricity or water, running out of food, after most university staff and other students have left the country

:*November 13, 2018 – [https://link.gale.com/apps/doc/A562136660/STND "University officials granted bail", CANA News via Gale OneFile]

:*January 5, 2019 – [https://barbados.loopnews.com/content/minister-assures-barbadians-ross-university-accredited "Minister assures Barbadians Ross University is accredited", Loop News] – article by Kerri Gooding reporting Education Minister's acknowledgement that "the Washington University of Barbados debacle...left a sour taste in the mouths of Barbadians last year", stressing that thorough due diligence was conducted in the case of Ross University School of Medicine

:*February 22, 2019 – [https://www.nationnews.com/2019/02/22/indian-students-protected-indian-students-protected/ "Indian Students 'Protected'", Nation News] – assurance from Indian High Commissioner that the Indian government would do a better job of protecting university students in Barbados in the future

So there you go. Whatever the outcome, well done to you again for flagging this article for AfD; it definitely was not OK to allow the article to stand as it was previously. If you need anything else, let me know. Cielquiparle (talk) 07:23, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. Cielquiparle (talk) 07:26, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Cielquiparle (talk) 07:31, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

:Thank you for those helpful links @Cielquiparle!

:Given those new articles, I agree that coverage on Wikipedia should exist in some form. In addition to the rewrite, I'm not sure if a rename of the article or a redirect of the article would be a better move.

:Noting that the majority of the article is focused on the scandal of the unaccredited medical school (and not its history, student life, academics --which I think is what one typically sees in articles about schools on Wikipedia).

:Currently, the following pages on Wikipedia also exist:

:2015 University of Louisville basketball sex scandal

:Corruption in Chile - Would a Corruption in Barbados page be helpful here? Wikipedia does cover other countries.

:List of corporate collapses and scandals - I hesitate to call WUB a university because it was unaccredited. I think corporation might be a good word here.

:The article also mentions "international medical school scam". Currently, a page of that doesn't exist. Might make for an interesting read later which can be expanded with other pages which also exist.

:(Also @Cielquiparle - I'd just like to add that I just noticed your changes in the article. Much much better than its previous state!) Wozal (talk) 03:04, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

:

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:50, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

• Delete I don't see much we can use for GNG, and it's closed, so that's likely all we'll find. Oaktree b (talk) 20:53, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
• :After a much more careful read, I'm inclined to agree with @Oaktree b and think that it might have been more notable for the event in the ways that these scams are, rather than the university itself. Wozal (talk) 03:03, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
• ::@Wozal Trump University was much bigger in scale...but in some ways similar. Cielquiparle (talk) 03:44, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
• Keep as it's a historical account of a notable educational scam in which 200 students from India were conned out of ₹25 crore (over USD $3 million) to study at an unaccredited medical school in Barbados, chartered by a previous government administration, which had no running water, electricity, or library books, and did not pay staff. Article has been completely rewritten to make it clear from beginning to end that the school is no longer in operation and was part of an (alleged) international scam. Key criteria of WP:EVENT and WP:NCRIME are met, including lasting effects (political repercussions, pressure for better due diligence of foreign businesses in Barbados, described in "Aftermath" section), geographical scope (esp. Barbados and India and Caribbean educational sector more broadly), diversity of sources that are reliable (national newspapers in India and Barbados), and duration (2016 to 2019); depth of coverage is present in a few key articles with analysis, especially the "Fraud U." article listed above, plus "Bad medicine" and "UWI Head". School is also now listed in List of unaccredited institutions of higher learning and template has been changed to list school as "defunct". Cielquiparle (talk) 16:21, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
• Keep - As this is a notable account of a crime. Also, retaining the article counteracts Wikipedia's systemic bias. Closure of an educational institution should not be a reason for deleting an article about the institution. It is a historical fact this institution existed, and what happened is supported by sources cited in the article. Besides, Wikipedia should not be a directory of only open educational institutions, it should also document those that have closed or are defunct and the reasons for being so. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 00:02, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.