Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yaakov Rokach

:{{la|Yaakov Rokach}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [https://tools.wmflabs.org/jackbot/snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Yaakov_Rokach Stats])

:({{Find sources AFD|Yaakov Rokach}})

Badly translated and unsourced, with apparently no sources available (and no extra content/sources on the Hebrew Wikipedia where this came from). No value to this as it currently stands Jac16888 ^Talk 21:59, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

• Delete: Almost certainly notable, but per WP:TNT this useless machine translation should not be kept. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad)
• :Changed, see below. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 20:19, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 22:50, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 22:50, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

:Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletion discussions. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 22:50, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

• Keep this article clearly qualifies as WP:N & WP:BIO as even user הסרפד admits! Poor standards of presentation are not grounds for deletion. This rabbi published at least sixteen original works according to Yaakov Rokach#His Books, an image of the front page of one of them, see Yaakov Rokach#Shaari Tefillah, actually even appears twice in the article, this is a true example and sample of a primary source! So on the contrary, what should be done is such a case is that templates such as {{t|Cleanup}} & {{t|MOS}} could be added just as the {{t|Multiple issues}} was helpfully added, and a request could be put in at WP:TALKJUDAISM for WP:EXPERT help in this regard, but there is no point in cutting off the nose to spite the face. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 23:53, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
• Comment The poor translation alone is not grounds for deletion (as we have access the original Hebrew text and a better translator could produce a better translation), but the poor sourcing is grounds for deletion. We have only one source (the obscure Encyclopedia Aarazi Halebnon) whose reliability must be assessed. Unfortunately, the he.wiki version of this article contains no better sourcing, so we really have nothing else to go on. Replying directly to {{mention|IZAK}} I would point out the fact that the use of primary sources is actually discouraged at Wikipedia. The presence of the primary source is no boon to this article. I withhold opinion as to whether this article should be kept or deleted until members of WP:WikiProject Judaism can weigh in -- they'll certainly know better about the reliability of the source and the significance of this figure in Jewish history. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 00:24, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
• WikiDan61: If someone is willing to retranslate the article, let them do so, but the current version is neither acceptable as it is, nor is of any use to the re-translator. Hence, WP:TNT.
• Encyclopedia Aarazi Halebnon is only obscure if you search for it by this dreadful machine transliteration. The correct title is {{Script/Hebrew|אנציקלופדיה ארזי הלבנון}} (Encyclopedia Arze ha-Levanon, {{oclc|70779527}}), by one Shimon Vanunu. Arze ha-Levanon, though, is not considered a reliable tertiary source. (Searching its Hebrew name brings up several online discussions on the subject.)
• :The second source cited is also poorly transliterated: it should read {{Script/Hebrew|שלחן לחם הפנים}} (Shulḥan Leḥem ha-Panim, {{oclc|24066401}}), editor's introduction. (The editor is Rabbi Levi Nahum, a prominent rabbi of the Libyan Jewish community in Israel.) This would seem to be an excellent reference, though I have not read it, as it is cited in several sources (including Vanunu: see [http://books.google.com/books?id=_crXAAAAMAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=%22%D7%A9%D7%9C%D7%97%D7%9F+%D7%9C%D7%97%D7%9D+%D7%94%D7%A4%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%9D%22 Arze ha-Levanon Vol. 2 on Google Books]) as the primary biography of Rabbi Yaakov Rakah [or Raqah etc., but not Rokach].
• :Another good source would be his entry in {{Script/Hebrew|יהדות לוב}} (Yahadut Luv "Lybian Jewry", {{oclc|319774610}}).
• :הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 01:05, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
• Another detailed article on Rabbi Yaakov Rakah can be found in the prominent rabbinical journal {{Script/Hebrew|מקבציאל}} (Meḳabtsiʼel, {{oclc|11664518}}, published by Yeshivat Hevrat Ahavat Shalom), Issue 39 (2013), pp. 129–35.
• :Unfortunately, I do not have full access to any of the sources listed above. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 01:33, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
• :{{ping|הסרפד}} Please go ahead and add your important research to the article even as references at the bottom of the page. Thanks, IZAK (talk) 09:55, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
• Delete or move to draft space per WP:ATD-I. Current stage, it's not suitable quality, by a long shot, for an English encyclopedia. Seems on shaky Notability grounds, as presented. HG | Talk 01:53, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
• NOTE: Please see the current updated version of the article that has now been WP:WIKIFY'ed and the language basically fixed, as well as now indicating that it is a {{t|rabbi-stub}} and as such deserves a WP:CHANCE as well as WP:DONOTDEMOLISH. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 09:55, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
• Keep Based on sources identified by Hasirpad and the cleanup provided by IZAK, I'd have to say that this person does appear to be a notable person within the body of Jewish history meriting an article. WikiDan61ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 12:33, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
• Keep I agree with all the reasons of Hasirpad. he is indeed notable. This needs an expert but any book on the history of Libyan Jewry has Rabbi Yaakov Raqah (or Rakah). See Harvey Goldberg, Jewish Life in Muslim Libya, there are also references in academic articles in Hebrew. --Jayrav (talk) 18:56, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
• Comment Perhaps, if this article survives this AFD, we would do well to move it to Yaakov Rakah as a better transliteration of the Hebrew name. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 19:00, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
• I agree. Yoninah (talk) 03:00, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
• Move to Draft space and userify, it's clearly not ready for article space, the cited letter is clearly WP:OR, while the other sources are so vaguely described they are of little use. It seems he created a library, wrote some books (of unknown importance) and knew some better-known rabbis, all of which doesn't sound like a convincing case for notability at the moment. Sionk (talk) 21:38, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
• Strong keep. I added a lot of references from Hebrew sources. Yoninah (talk) 01:28, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

• keep I agree with Yoninah העורך היהודי (talk) 19:43, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

• Keep: per recent improvements (thanks, IZAK and Yoninah). I personally think it is worth deleting machine-translated articles to discourage their creation (take heed, העורך היהודי‎), but the article is acceptable now and, as mentioned above, the subject's notability is clear. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 20:19, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

{{od}}

{{ping|הסרפד}} Thank you. NOTE TO CLOSING ADMIN: Please advise User {{user|העורך היהודי}} not to create articles that are a horrible mess in English since he has created articles and categories that are creating problems with their horrible translations and terrible English. He needs to get some sort of WP:MENTORING going with any editor/s willing to help him. But he cannot run around WP causing this type of havoc and then leaving others top clean up after him and spending time defending his work in this sort of way. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 08:51, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

• It seems that the Raqah family's preferred Romanization is (Italian-style) "Raccah" or "Racah"; these seem to be the spellings used by the subject's nephew, Gabriel Raccah, an oft-cited historian of Libyan Jewry. See also [//books.google.com/books?id=-zbxF-m_am4C&pg=PA118 this English-language source] that discusses the significance of Rabbi Yaakov Raccah in the historiography of the Jews in Libya. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 00:38, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

:*{{ping|הסרפד}} Let's move this discussion to the article talk page. The Encyclopaedia Judaica and other sources has it as "Rakah" or "Raqah". Yoninah (talk) 10:34, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

• Note to {{ping|Jac16888}} and closing administrator: It's not clear why this nom is still here with all the keep votes, and why it was relisted. The article is fully compliant with WP:GNG, has reliable sources, and has spawned the creation of numerous other articles on other members of the Rakah/Adadi families to complement it and populate :Category:Libyan rabbis. Can we close this AFD already? Thank you, Yoninah (talk) 01:25, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.