Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 July 27#

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:Censored works. Based on the arguments, there is a pretty clear consensus to keep this category, as well as to rename it to avoid confusion. ℯxplicit 05:47, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{Lc|Censored media}}

:Nominator's rationale: Not a defining characteristic and never complete. GZWDer (talk) 19:14, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

• Weak support I'm open to hearing rationale to keep this category but :Category:Censorship looks pretty well developed and organized and "media" itself is something of a vague term. Seraphim System ^(talk) 20:17, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
• Delete arguably, all media is censored somewhere by someone. Regardless, its censorship at somewhere at some time by someone is both transitory and not defining. :Category:Media affected by the Great Firewall, anyone? Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:32, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
• Again, a media being censored by Great Firewall does not make it notable, and it is also not defining.--GZWDer (talk) 00:04, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
• Irrelevant. Neither is year of creation or birth something that makes one notable. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:04, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
• Delete. This is not a defining point of commonality between The Satanic Verses (Islamic fatwa) and Mein Kampf (not censored, but just under a cultural taboo) and Fifty Shades of Grey (not censored, just boycotted by the self-appointed moral guardians) and Der Spiegel (one weekly issue of a magazine that's been around for over 70 years banned in one country) and things banned in China for political reasons. Bearcat (talk) 02:27, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
• Keep. This can be a defining characteristic of some media, being censored is often mentioned in lead, for example consider Go Princess Go or Mo Li Hua, or Germany. A Winter's Tale (particularly GPG and GWT are interesting, because it was censorship that generated a lot of buzz about them, both in the 21st and in the 19th century). And being censored is about as important as being stated in year xx, closed, or many other things, perhaps more. Never complete is hardly a serious argument - there are many categories which are 'never complete', like, errr, all categories for creative works. Or astronomical bodies. Sigh. Perhaps some people misunderstood the purpose of this category - it's a parent category for censored media, i.e. books, songs, etc. Before this category existed, there was no way to find a list of media which have a commonality point of being censored, quite an important characteristic (through of course it varies from various media). PS. This category was created after a discussion involving several editors, and an RfC: Talk:Censorship/Archive_3#Censored_media_/_category_cleanup. Pinging editors involved in this discussion: {{ping|Crtew|Rich Farmbrough|Isthisuseful}}. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:59, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
• keep for the good reasons provided above. It now includes appropriate sub-categories. Hmains (talk) 06:19, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
• Keep, it does not make much sense to delete the category when its subcategories are kept. One other issue though, the current category name suggests that media as a whole are censored. A rename to :Category:Censored content or something like that may be considered. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:14, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
• Or :Category:Censored works perhaps? I wonder it the term media is causing confusion here. I am totally open to renaming. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:57, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
• :Category:Censored works sounds perfectly fine to me. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:47, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
• {{rto|Marcocapelle}} CfR after this is closed then? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 20:19, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
• Or possibly a closing admin is willing to relist this discussion to further discuss this rename. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:29, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
• Delete per everyone above and per the fact there's now subcats in said cat, No valid reason to delete keep –Davey2010^Talk 19:05, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

:huh? delete or keep? Hmains (talk) 03:02, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

::{{ping|Davey2010}} I think we should ping Davey2010 for this :) --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:57, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

:::Haha deeeeerp!, My bad should've said "No valid reason to keep", Many thanks for the ping {{u|Piotrus}} :). –Davey2010^Talk 13:15, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

::::*Keep per everyone above me, I think I've got confused and gone with delete when infact I wanted it kept ? God only knows but keep per everyone above. –Davey2010^Talk 13:19, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

• Keep, I just added a painting to the category and found no other category to place it in. I am a bit confused by 'media' in the title, but yes, there is a need for a central category for censored works besides 'Censorship in the arts' (so maybe rename to 'Censored works'). Randy Kryn (talk) 11:15, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: Delete. Timrollpickering 19:45, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{Lc|People excluded from entering the United States}}

:Nominator's rationale: Not a defining characteristic; compare Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2017_November_27#Category:People_banned_from_entering_China GZWDer (talk) 18:59, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

• Delete as non-defining for Elisabeth Waldheim etc. See also the CFD that deleted Category:People banned from entering the United States‎. DexDor ^(talk) 20:03, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
• Delete - deleted category in a very slight disguise. Oculi (talk) 20:48, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
• Delete nondefining and per precedent. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:27, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
• No opposition by category creator (myself) to deletion of category. Upon review, I believe it is redundant. Quis separabit? 03:43, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: Merge. Timrollpickering 19:44, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Wildlife of the Balkans to :Category:Biota of the Balkans

:Nominator's rationale: Same topic. "Biota" is the term normally used for similar categories. DexDor ^(talk) 18:41, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

• Comment - there is :Category:Wildlife, subcat (apparently) of both :Category:Biota and :Category:Organisms. Oculi (talk) 21:02, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

::I've removed the redundant categorization so now it's Wildlife under Biota under Organisms.

::I think all/most of the Category:Wildlife should go, but I'm doing it slowly (e.g. in case editors decide that the merge should be in the other direction). DexDor ^(talk) 21:50, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: Delete. Timrollpickering 15:41, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Train station moving walkways to :Category:Train stations with moving walkways

:Nominator's rationale: The category is for stations, not walkways - existing title is unclear. (Not sure how useful a category it is, but that's another issue). PamD 15:38, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

• Delete as being non-defining. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 16:26, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
• Delete -- unusual, but not all that uncommon. I am sure I found an example on London, at an underground station not in the category. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:40, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
• Delete not defining. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:28, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
• Delete Train stations with elevators, car rentals, parking garages, etc are all normal amenities. RevelationDirect (talk) 16:47, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: Merge. Timrollpickering 22:00, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

• Propose merging :Category:Years in the Helvetic Republic to :Category:Years in Switzerland
• Propose merging :Category:Decades in the Helvetic Republic to :Category:Decades in Switzerland
• Propose merging :Category:1790s in the Helvetic Republic to :Category:1790s in Switzerland
• Propose merging :Category:1798 in the Helvetic Republic to :Category:1798 in Switzerland
• Propose merging :Category:1790s establishments in the Helvetic Republic to :Category:1790s establishments in Switzerland
• Propose merging :Category:1798 establishments in the Helvetic Republic to :Category:1798 establishments in Switzerland
• Propose merging :Category:1800s in the Helvetic Republic to :Category:1800s in Switzerland
• Propose merging :Category:1802 in the Helvetic Republic to :Category:1802 in Switzerland
• Propose merging :Category:1802 establishments in the Helvetic Republic to :Category:1802 establishments in Switzerland
• Propose merging :Category:1803 in the Helvetic Republic to :Category:1803 in Switzerland
• Propose merging :Category:1803 disestablishments in the Helvetic Republic to :Category:1803 disestablishments in Switzerland
• Propose merging :Category:1800s establishments in the Helvetic Republic to :Category:1800s establishments in Switzerland
• Propose merging :Category:1800s disestablishments in the Helvetic Republic to :Category:1800s disestablishments in Switzerland
• Propose merging :Category:Establishments in the Helvetic Republic to :Category:Establishments in Switzerland
• Propose merging :Category:Establishments in the Helvetic Republic by year to :Category:Establishments in Switzerland by year
• Propose merging :Category:Disestablishments in the Helvetic Republic to :Category:Disestablishments in Switzerland
• Propose merging :Category:Disestablishments in the Helvetic Republic by year to :Category:Disestablishments in Switzerland by year

Nominator's rationale: Helvetic Republic is the name of the political regime of Switzerland between 1798 and 1803. Despite the fact that its borders were not exactly identitical to that of modern Switzerland, there is no basis for an entire separate chronology tree. Place Clichy (talk) 12:06, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

• Merge or reverse merge, certainly do not keep this duplication. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:26, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
• I agree with Marcocapelle. Boundaries have often moved, but it is essentially the same country. Its name as Helvetic Republic was of short duration. We might keep that name for year categories 1798-1803, but these should be parented to Switzerland ones covering longer periods. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:52, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
• Agreed. Sandstein 08:37, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: Merge/delete. Timrollpickering 10:07, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting :Category:Photographs by year‎

:* Propose merging :Category:1904 photographs‎ to :Category:1904 works and :Category:1904 in art and :Category:1900s photographs

:* Propose merging :Category:1906 photographs‎ to :Category:1906 works and :Category:1906 in art and :Category:1900s photographs

:* Propose merging :Category:1907 photographs‎ to :Category:1907 works and :Category:1907 in art and :Category:1900s photographs

:* Propose merging :Category:1917 photographs‎ to :Category:1917 works and :Category:1917 in art and :Category:1910s photographs

:* Propose merging :Category:1918 photographs‎ to :Category:1918 works and :Category:1918 in art and :Category:1910s photographs

:Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, we have too few photographs articles per year, leading to many 1- or 2-article categories. Categorization per decade helps better to find photographs from approximately the same period. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:40, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

:*Support I agree with the nominator's rationale. Qono (talk) 03:57, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: rename :Category:Civics to :Category:Active citizenship, the second as nominated. ℯxplicit 05:47, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Civics to :Category:Citizenship

:* Propose renaming :Category:Global civics to :Category:Global citizenship

:Nominator's rationale: merge/rename because these categories are not about civics as the study of citizenship but about citizenship itself. In addition I wonder if we shouldn't purge most subcats of the two nominated categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:28, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

• Comment :Category:Citizenship seems to focus on the legal recognition and transfer of citizenship which is distinct from this category's sense of citizenship as active participation. Maybe rename to :Category:Civic participation and pushing a lot of the current contents of :Category:Citizenship down to :Category:Nationality law? (Not opposed to this proposal but open to other options.) RevelationDirect (talk) 16:52, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

:* That is a fair point. Possibly then rename the first category to :Category:Active citizenship in line with article Active citizenship. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:13, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

::* Support Alternative That would work for me! Support that alternative with the rename for the Global civics category. RevelationDirect (talk) 23:43, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

::::Just so the closing admin doesn't have to pick through this discussion, here is the alternative I supported:

::::-Propose renaming :Category:Civics to :Category:Active citizenship (Changed)

::::-Propose renaming :Category:Global civics to :Category:Global citizenship (As originally nominated) - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:54, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: listify and delete. ℯxplicit 05:47, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Czech Lion Awards winners (people) to :Category:Recipients of the Czech Lion Award

:Nominator's rationale: Match the style of other categories, for instance Category:Recipients of the Distinguished Service Order and all other award categories that I know of. Catrìona (talk) 23:25, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose as the award is given to both people and films, per :Category:Czech Lion Awards winners. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 06:57, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
• Rename to :Category:People who are recipients of the Czech Lion Award which resolves both of the concerns above. — Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)  04:22, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
• Listify and delete per WP:OCAWARD. A list will also give the opportunity to provide more background information about whether it is an individual or a film award. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:05, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

:* I support Marcocapelle's suggestion--WP:OCAWARD applies here. Catrìona (talk) 13:14, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

• Support Marcocapelle. This and its 3 subcats are classic cases of WP:OCAWARD. There appear to be three awards, for people, TV series and films. Possibly we might have a category to house three LIST-articles, but I hope not. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:56, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
• Listify (e.g. to Czech Lion Awards) and delete. DexDor ^(talk) 20:53, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:OCAWARD. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:29, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
• Delete This award seems to mostly reflect pre-existing notability rather than adding to it. RevelationDirect (talk) 16:53, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: no consensus. ℯxplicit 05:47, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Athletics clubs in the United States to :Category:Sports clubs in the United States

:Nominator's rationale: It is unclear how one can distinguish an "athletics club" from a general "sports club". This naming also presents ambiguity over whether the category relates to the sport of athletics, which is already covered at :Category:Track and field clubs in the United States. SFB 15:11, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

• Comment, quite a few articles are about gentlemen's clubs rather than a general sports club. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:10, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
• In that case purge -- In American usage, I understand what I (in England) call athletics is "Track and field" in America. Possibly, the subject should be retained as a cat-redirect or a dab-category. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:05, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

• keep the name of the category describes that most of the entries in the category are: mixed sports clubs, not a single sport and certainly not just track and field. There is no reason to merge this into :Category:Sports clubs in the United States which is largely just a parent category with few articles. Hmains (talk) 17:50, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: Merge. Timrollpickering 20:20, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Steel Mills in Sindh to :Category:Steel companies of Pakistan

:Nominator's rationale: unnecessary intermediate category. Only one sub cat Rathfelder (talk) 07:13, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

• Keep - this category places subcats and articles within :Category:Steel companies of Pakistan, :Category:Industry in Sindh, :Category:Iron and steel mills and :Category:Manufacturing plants in Pakistan. The nom retains subcats and articles within the first but does not explain whether the articles are being retained in the other categories (and if not, why not?). Oculi (talk) 13:00, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

:* "If you think something needs to be upmerged, make sure that all parent categories are included in the nomination as merge targets (or make sure you have a good reason not to include all of the parents)." This advice can be found, not made long ago and buried in some obscure place far from Rathfelder's gaze, but on their own talk page in April 2018. I would be grateful if Rathfelder could commit either to heeding such advice or avoiding cfd and category space altogether. Oculi (talk) 14:27, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

::*We havent broken down steel companies to any other regions. Even in the USA they are not broken down into states. There doesnt seem to be any good reason for this particular subdivision. The only entry is for companies in Karachi. The articles both seem to be about companies, not about the mills themselves, as is the case with many of the articles about steel mills.. Rathfelder (talk) 14:48, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

:::* At present :Category:Manufacturing plants in Pakistan contains 3 articles at the top level and 4 articles in subcats (2 shipyards and 2 steel mills in Karachi). The nom has the effect of removing the 2 steel mills in Karachi from :Category:Manufacturing plants in Pakistan. What is the rationale for this? Is a steel mill in Karachi not a manufacturing plant in Pakistan? Oculi (talk) 15:34, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

::::*Its a steel company in Pakistan, which is a subcategory of :Category:Manufacturing companies of Pakistan.Rathfelder (talk) 16:12, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

::::*The two articles in the Karachi subcat are about companies named Steel Mills, they are not about the actual plants. So Rathfelder is right in not proposing to merge to :Category:Manufacturing plants in Pakistan. It would be helpful to rename/merge the Karachi subcat as well, in order to avoid this confusion. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:50, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

• Merge upwards to eliminate this layer - probably not a full upmerge. The only content is about Karachi, which can go direct into a Pakistan category. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:12, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

• Support merge per WP:SMALLCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:23, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: Rename. Timrollpickering 20:21, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:War crimes committed by Ukrainian Insurgent Army to :Category:War crimes committed by the Ukrainian Insurgent Army

:Nominator's rationale: Catrìona (talk) 01:07, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

• agree Whatever the rationale is, I as creator of the category, agree that the changed name is better English Hmains (talk) 02:57, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
• I don't oppose the proposed rename, but the related topic article is at Massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia so it may make more sense to rename the category accordingly to :Category:Massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia. Also, diffusing this category by the two regions Volhynia and Eastern Galicia is perhaps not too meaningful. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:10, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

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