Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 July 1

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge the actor/actress categories, keep the rest. bibliomaniac15 04:15, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Actors in the Nazi Party to :Category:Nazi Party members

:* :Category:Male actors in the Nazi Party to :Category:Nazi Party members

:* :Category:Actresses in the Nazi Party to :Category:Nazi Party members

:* :Category:LGBT people in the Nazi Party to :Category:Nazi Party members

:* :Category:Architects in the Nazi Party to :Category:Nazi Party members

:* :Category:Judges in the Nazi Party to :Category:Nazi Party members

:Nominator's rationale: This came up recently for renaming but I believe that these are non-defining intersections. We have no other such combinations. User:Namiba 20:46, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose Some of these combinations are defining; judges in the Nazi Party were presumably strongly influenced in their judgments by the party doctrine some notably so: Roland Freisler. Architects, too, brings a notable intersection to mind: Albert Speer. I haven't looked at the others, but it stands to reason wholesale elimination of Nazis by profession needs more than cursory merger. As for LGBT/Nazi combination lots has been written notably about many of the early SA (Ernst Röhm), and little different than :Category:Nobility in the Nazi Party‎ which intersection has also been notably written about and not nominated above. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 21:25, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

::Being a member of a political party is often defining. Being a Nazi is also often defining. However, simply being a judge/actor/architect etc. and a Nazi is not itself defining. The same could be said of virtually every political combinations. Would Judges in the Democratic Party or Architects in the Labour Party or Landscape artists in the Communist Party of the Soviet Union make sense? The combination of political party and occupation, when that combination is directly related (i.e. when they're not a politician or political activist) is trivial and non-defining. If you would like to add other categories, I am open to it. But it seems like you want to categorize people by their political party and occupation, which is counter to the second portion of your argument.--User:Namiba 21:56, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose The rationale is based on a personal belief of the nominator and not on policy. WP:NONDEF specifies that "a defining characteristic is one that reliable, secondary sources commonly and consistently define, in prose, the subject as having." No sources have been cited by the nominator. Dimadick (talk) 08:42, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

::Would you be comfortable with {{cl|Actors in the Democratic Party (United States)}}? The second portion of what you mention above is what demonstrates that these are non-defining: "a defining characteristic is one that reliable, secondary sources commonly and consistently define, in prose, the subject as having. For example: "Subject is an adjective noun ..." or "Subject, an adjective noun". Being in the Nazi Party is tangential to the notability of every article in {{cl|Male actors in the Nazi Party}}. Most of these figures had careers, sometimes long careers, prior to joining the party.--User:Namiba 12:51, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

• Support as far as actors and actresses go. There are only 4 and all are categorised in other Nazi categories. Rathfelder (talk) 20:21, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose merging the Judges. Many of them were judges in non-constitutional courts created by the nazis or commited war crimes in their capacity as judges. These inlclude, Josef Altstötter, Franz Breithaupt, Roland Freisler, Harry Haffner, Rudolf Lehmann (military judge), and Fritz Rehn. Support merging the Actors and Actresses Asmodea Oaktree (talk) 16:17, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename all. (non-admin closure) DannyS712 (talk) 00:22, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Offspring of Aphrodite to :Category:Children of Aphrodite‎

:* Propose renaming :Category:Offspring of Apollo to :Category:Children of Apollo‎

:* Propose renaming :Category:Offspring of Ares to :Category:Children of Ares‎

:* Propose renaming :Category:Offspring of Asclepius to :Category:Children of Asclepius‎

:* Propose renaming :Category:Offspring of Demeter to :Category:Children of Demeter‎

:* Propose renaming :Category:Offspring of Dionysus to :Category:Children of Dionysus‎

:* Propose renaming :Category:Offspring of Eos to :Category:Children of Eos‎

:* Propose renaming :Category:Offspring of Gaia to :Category:Children of Gaia‎

:* Propose renaming :Category:Offspring of Helios to :Category:Children of Helios‎

:* Propose renaming :Category:Offspring of Hephaestus to :Category:Children of Hephaestus‎

:* Propose renaming :Category:Offspring of Hera to :Category:Children of Hera‎

:* Propose renaming :Category:Offspring of Hermes to :Category:Children of Hermes‎

:* Propose renaming :Category:Offspring of Persephone to :Category:Children of Persephone‎

:* Propose renaming :Category:Offspring of Poseidon to :Category:Children of Poseidon‎

:* Propose renaming :Category:Offspring of Zeus to :Category:Children of Zeus‎

:* Propose renaming :Category:Offspring of Atlas to :Category:Children of Atlas‎

:* Propose renaming :Category:Offspring of the Harpies to :Category:Children of the Harpies‎

:* Propose renaming :Category:Offspring of Heracles to :Category:Children of Heracles‎

:* Propose renaming :Category:Offspring of Lucifer to :Category:Children of Lucifer‎

:* Propose renaming :Category:Offspring of Medusa to :Category:Children of Medusa‎

:* Propose renaming :Category:Offspring of Oceanus to :Category:Children of Oceanus‎

:* Propose renaming :Category:Offspring of Odysseus to :Category:Children of Odysseus‎

:* Propose renaming :Category:Offspring of Theseus to :Category:Children of Theseus‎

:Nominator's rationale: rename using a less ambiguous term, also aligning with parent categories :Category:Children by Greek deity and :Category:Children by Greek mythological figure. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:19, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

• Speedy rename per WP:C2C, als consistent with the tree for children of real people. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 22:01, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
• Support. With most of the entries, there's no reason to oppose; but even with the ones who are usually described as monsters, i.e. Typhon, Echidna, Pegasus, the Cyclopes, they can also be referred to as "children". P Aculeius (talk) 14:15, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• Support Clear naming convention in tree. RevelationDirect (talk) 23:12, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Asmodea Oaktree (talk) 08:48, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge. MER-C 16:59, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Nazis who committed suicide in Germany by method to :Category:Nazis who committed suicide in Germany

:* Propose merging :Category:Nazis who committed suicide in Austria by method to :Category:Nazis who committed suicide in Austria

:Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with only three subcategories. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:12, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

• Support per nom. The location of a suicide is also nondefining. Asmodea Oaktree (talk) 08:50, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
• Support Method of suicide is not defining. Rathfelder (talk) 19:12, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge. bibliomaniac15 04:18, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Restaurants in Barnstable, Massachusetts to :Category:Companies based in Barnstable, Massachusetts

:Nominator's rationale: Dual upmerge to {{cl|Restaurants in Massachusetts}} and {{cl|Buildings and structures in Barnstable, Massachusetts}}. Category with 2 articles that is unlikely to significantly grow in a city of 45,000 residents. User:Namiba 12:40, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

• Triple merge per WP:SMALLCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:04, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

::Note, I've changed the nomination to merge into {{cl|Restaurants in Massachusetts}} instead of {{cl|Restaurants in Southeastern Massachusetts}}. Southeastern Massachusetts has no defined boundaries and will shortly be nominated for deletion.--User:Namiba 19:56, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

::* I have no issue with that. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:31, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Mdaniels5757 (talk) 22:45, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Alsophila to :Category:Alsophila (plant)

:Nominator's rationale: per head article Alsophila (plant). The bare title Alsophila is a disambiguation page. This should have been a simple speedy renaming WP:C2D, but it was opposed by Peter coxhead, who objects to the speedy criterion C2D, to the whole CFDS process, and to the {{nowrap|WP:Category names#Naming_conventions}} ... and wants to take up lots of everybody's time in individual discussions of C2D-type renamings of every category relating to tree of life topics.
The discussion at speedy is copied below; for more of Peter coxhead's drama see WT:WikiProject Plants#Category_renaming and User talk:BrownHairedGirl#Category_renaming ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:BrownHairedGirl&oldid=965448570#Category_renaming permalink]). --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:39, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

{{collapse top|Copy of speedy discussion}}

• :Category:Alsophila to :Category:Alsophila (plant) – C2D: per head article Alsophila (plant). The bare title Alsophila is a disambiguation page. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:04, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose. There's no article at Alsophila: both the fern and the moth are disambiguated. More sensible would be to choose one of the two taxa as the main topic and fix the categories accordingly. The images and top articles in a Google search for "Alsophila" are all for the fern, so this should be made the main topic. Peter coxhead (talk) 07:55, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
• :@Peter coxhead, per WP:C2D the category name should match the article name, so unless the article Alsophila (plant) is renamed, this category should be disambiguated. Feel free to open an RM discussions f you see fit. If an RM discussion is opened, then this speedy will be placed on hold pending its outcome, but otherwise it is a valid renaming which should proceed.
  Note that if such an RM is opened, I will oppose the renaming: I see no benefit to editors or readers in creating avoidable ambiguity in a scientific term, and many downsides. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:37, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
• ::I still strongly oppose the way in which this is being steamrollered through. It's not for me to propose an RM; I don't want a move. You want a move, so you should open an RM and notify members of the relevant Wikiprojects. Peter coxhead (talk) 07:27, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

::::@Peter coxhead, plesae drop the hyperbole. There is no {{tq|steamroller|q=y}}, just a normal, long-established process for applying a long-established naming convention. If you don't want the category to be renamed, then you have three possible remedies:

::::# propose an RM to rename the article, so that it matches the current category title.

::::# open an RFC to propose changing or removing WP:C2D.

::::#After the renaming, open a full CFD discussion to propose moving it back, in breach of the convention. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 08:12, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

{{collapse bottom}}

• Rename per nom. The main article is Alsophila (plant) and Alsophila is ambiguous. Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 14:16, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
• Rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:09, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
• Rename per nom. It should be dabbed anyway as it is ambiguous (even if the article is moved). Oculi (talk) 18:19, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
• Comment Requests for comments, of all kinds, should be brief and neutral. This is absolutely not. If you want to see my reasoned argument, go to WT:PLANTS#Back to the issue. Otherwise I have no intention whatsoever of participating any further in this discussion, given how it has been set up. Peter coxhead (talk) 07:43, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• : This discussion isn't an RFC. Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 13:14, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

:::CFD nominations are making an argument for change; they are not neutral.RevelationDirect (talk) 23:16, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

• Rename Per WP:C2D RevelationDirect (talk) 23:16, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
• Rename per nom . Asmodea Oaktree (talk) 16:24, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 18:41, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|VISTA volunteers}} / :Category:AmeriCorps volunteers

:Nominator's rationale: AmeriCorps / VISTA are year-long volunteer programs sponsored by the US government. They are non-defining for those who participate. User:Namiba 11:15, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

• Delete Looks like they've had 177,000 people go through the program so far according to [https://www2.illinois.gov/sites/serve/americorps/Pages/AmeriCorpsVista_factsheet.aspx this link]. Doesn't seem defining. RevelationDirect (talk) 23:18, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 18:41, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Laurene Powell Jobs}}

:Nominator's rationale: per WP:SMALLCAT. This is an eponymous category for Laurene Powell Jobs, widow of Apple founder Steve Jobs. It contains only the head article and two other pages. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 04:36, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

• Delete per WP:SMALLCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:13, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: merge. MER-C 17:00, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Leica M10 to :Category:Leica M-mount cameras

:Nominator's rationale: per WP:SMALLCAT. Contains only the head article Leica M10 and one image. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:50, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

• Merge per WP:SMALLCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:14, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:Lesbia (bird). MER-C 15:07, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

: Propose renaming either:

:* :Category:Lesbia to :Category:Lesbia (bird)
or

:* :Category:Lesbia to :Category:Trainbearer

:Nominator's rationale: In this context, "Lesbia" refers to the scientific name for the Trainbearer bird. Some change is needed to disambiguate it from the bare title Lesbia, which is about the literary pseudonym used by the Roman poet Gaius Valerius Catullus (c. 82–52 BC) to refer to his lover.

:Responses to other similar recent nominations have shows a preference for the disambiguated scientific name, but I am fine with either form, so long as the current ambiguity is resolved. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:24, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

• Rename per nom. As noted, normally this type of categories keeps the scientific name, option A in this case. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:19, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

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:The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) DannyS712 (talk) 00:20, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Overmyer Network}}

:Nominator's rationale: Speedy: No need to list affiliates of a defunct network Mvcg66b3r (talk) 01:27, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Note that the sibling :Category:NTA Film Network still requires cleanup. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:13, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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:The result of the discussion was: move to :Category:Wikipedia content administration. (non-admin closure) Mdaniels5757 (talk) 22:44, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Wikipedia content to :Category:Wikipedia content administration

:Nominator's rationale:

1. Reduce possible confusion with :Category:Wikipedia contents.
2. Similar to existing :Category:Wikipedia template administration‎, :Category:Wikipedia citation administration‎, and :Category:Wikipedia portal administration‎. —⁠andrybak (talk) 01:25, 1 July 2020

• Rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:16, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
• Rename per nominator, for clarity. The current title is ambiguous. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:25, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
• Rename per nom Asmodea Oaktree (talk) 16:40, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.