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Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 August 12#Category:Hardball! series

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= August 12 =

== Category:Cricket grounds in the United States ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: merge all. bibliomaniac15 04:54, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Cricket grounds in California to :Category:Cricket grounds in the United States

:* Propose merging :Category:Cricket grounds in Florida to :Category:Cricket grounds in the United States

:* Propose merging :Category:Cricket grounds in Texas to :Category:Cricket grounds in the United States

:Nominator's rationale: WP:OVERCAT as these are low-populated categories that do not need sub-categories from :Category:Cricket grounds in the United States. –Aidan721 (talk) 21:32, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

  • Merge all per nom. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 06:28, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
  • Merge all per nom. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:11, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose. There is no advantage to create huge area categories like the nominator proposed. I'm personally not familiar with Texas or Florida sports grounds but the existing US state communities would surely be able to populate those cats if asked. The California cat has five entries and thus doesn't qualify for SMALLCAT. --Just N. (talk) 20:39, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

:*These 3 states of the US have notable grounds that have hosted international matches. Most other states in the US don't. Upmerging it to the country level isn't going to create a massive number of articles in that category (it will be barely more than the 11 grounds listed in these subcats). Joseph2302 (talk) 20:58, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

  • Merge There is no reason to brake up categories that in total have less than 20 enties.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:25, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Sierra Nevada (U.S.) ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: keep. bibliomaniac15 04:45, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

:* REDIRECT :Category:Ecology of the Sierra Nevada (U.S.) to :Category:Ecology of the Sierra Nevada

:* REDIRECT :Category:Fauna of the Sierra Nevada (U.S.) to :Category:Fauna of the Sierra Nevada

:* REDIRECT :Category:Flora of the Sierra Nevada (U.S.) to :Category:Flora of the Sierra Nevada

:* REDIRECT :Category:Forests of the Sierra Nevada (U.S.) to :Category:Forests of the Sierra Nevada

:* REDIRECT :Category:Protected areas of the Sierra Nevada (U.S.) to :Category:Protected areas of the Sierra Nevada

:* REDIRECT :Category:Birds of the U.S. Sierra Nevada to :Category:Birds of the Sierra Nevada

:* REDIRECT :Category:History of the Sierra Nevada (U.S.) to :Category:History of the Sierra Nevada

:* REDIRECT :Category:Former Native American populated places in the Sierra Nevada (U.S.) to :Category:Former Native American populated places in the Sierra Nevada

:* REDIRECT :Category:Landforms of the Sierra Nevada (U.S.) to :Category:Landforms of the Sierra Nevada

:* REDIRECT :Category:Glaciers of the Sierra Nevada (U.S.) to :Category:Glaciers of the Sierra Nevada

:* REDIRECT :Category:Lakes of the Sierra Nevada (U.S.) to :Category:Lakes of the Sierra Nevada

:* REDIRECT :Category:Mountain ranges of the Sierra Nevada (U.S.) to :Category:Mountain ranges of the Sierra Nevada

:* REDIRECT :Category:Mountains of the Sierra Nevada (U.S.) to :Category:Mountains of the Sierra Nevada

:* REDIRECT :Category:Mountain passes of the Sierra Nevada (U.S.) to :Category:Mountain passes of the Sierra Nevada

:* REDIRECT :Category:Rivers of the Sierra Nevada (U.S.) to :Category:Rivers of the Sierra Nevada

:* REDIRECT :Category:Waterfalls of the Sierra Nevada (U.S.) to :Category:Waterfalls of the Sierra Nevada

:* REDIRECT :Category:Sierra Nevada (U.S.)-related lists to :Category:Sierra Nevada-related lists

:* REDIRECT :Category:Populated places in the Sierra Nevada (U.S.) to :Category:Populated places in the Sierra Nevada

: Nominator's rationale: follow-up on this earlier discussion. The above batch was opposed for speedy renaming. To be honest, I would be neutral towards re-opening the earlier full discussion, however with the given outcome there should at least be some level of consistency. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:06, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

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:{{ping|Crossover1370|LaundryPizza03|Good Olfactory|Adamant1|RevelationDirect}} pinging contributors to previous full discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:06, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

:{{ping|Explicit}} pinging closer of previous full discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:06, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

:{{ping|Oculi}} pinging opposer to speedy rename. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:06, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

  • Oppose as there 2 substantial mountain ranges, Sierra Nevada (Spain) (containing the highest peak in Spain) and Sierra Nevada in the US, there is a clear danger of confusion if the categories are not disambiguated. Birmingham and Birmingham, Alabama is perhaps comparable. This was not mentioned in the earlier cfd. (I would expect for most people in Europe Sierra Nevada is in Spain. Further the [https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor%C3%ADa:Sierra_Nevada_(Espa%C3%B1a) Spanish version] of the category is more fully developed indicating potential for expansion.) Oculi (talk) 20:53, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

:* {{ping|Oculi}} just to be clear, I guess you would prefer re-opening the previous full discussion? Marcocapelle (talk) 21:21, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

  • Support Article renaming discussion determined that the California mountain range is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. That determination of primary topic should carry over to the category tree, for consistency. No new evidence has been presented that would overturn the determination of primary topic. Therefore, Category tree should not be disambiguated. — hike395 (talk) 16:37, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

:: {{ping|CJK09|Rreagan007|Trovatore|King of Hearts|Schazjmd|Red Slash|Necrothesp}} pinging participants in article renaming discussion. — hike395 (talk) 06:29, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

  • Support, else the abbrevatioin U.S. should be expanded to United States for all categories. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 02:43, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
  • Not sure. I was one of the supporters of the U.S. mountain range being primary topic for the article, but I feel like there is a higher bar to clear for categories. If someone navigates to an incorrect article initially, they should be able to find their way to the correct article without much difficulty. But if someone tags a category incorrectly, they might not notice it, because unlike articles, people do not consistently verify the contents of categories when making use of them. As {{u|Oculi}} points out, Birmingham, England is the primary topic for the article but not the category. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 06:38, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
  • Exactly - there is a higher bar for category names. The question is whether 'the Sierra Nevada mountain range' is ambiguous and the answer is clearly yes. 'Fauna of the Sierra Nevada' is ambiguous, obviously; one does not wish to introduce Spanish creatures into the US. {{cl|People from Birmingham}} is often not empty; eg [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Richard_Neville_Lester&type=revision&diff=1037126132&oldid=1032403281&diffmode=source diff a few days ago]. Oculi (talk) 12:23, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

:::{{ping|Oculi|King of Hearts}} May I suggest getting consensus at WP:D and WP:CATNAME to reflect the higher bar? Category disambiguation must be a common case, and yet there is little guidance available to editors. — hike395 (talk) 08:22, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

:::* That is a very fair point. Currently the only reference to ambiguity with respect to category names is that it rules out speedy WP:C2D renaming. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:54, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

  • Oppose per King of Hearts's excellent point. I don't have a very strong opinion on whether the US mountain range is the primary topic for the article, but categories could indeed be more confusing. As to whether it's U.S. or United States, I guess I have a weak preference for U.S., just on the grounds that the category names are already on the long side. --Trovatore (talk) 06:46, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose WP:CAT and WP:CATNAME say to include a disambiguator when it's part of the article title, but don't address the primary topic. WP:C2D says {{tq| it generally does not apply to proposals to remove a disambiguator from the category name, even when the main article is the primary topic of its name}}. That wording in C2D implies that category names can include a disambiguator even though the primary topic does not. Given that, I'm convinced by the arguments in this discussion so far that dabbing the category is better for the reader experience and for the editors trying to apply the categories, and that those benefits outweigh consistency with the primary topic name. (Ambivalent on U.S. vs. United States as the dab) Schazjmd (talk) 14:10, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose -- The US range may be more important but the Spanish one is the original, so that a disambiguator is needed. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:29, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose The question is whether 'the Sierra Nevada mountain range' is ambiguous and the answer is clearly yes. --Just N. (talk) 20:42, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose There is clearly ambiguity with the range in Spain.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:26, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Store-hailing ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 06:12, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Store-hailing}}

:Nominator's rationale: Newly created single-use category. Term seems to have been invented by Robomart, which is the only article in the category. Cat created by same user who created article. Not likely to contain additional articles. – Broccoli & Coffee (Oh hai) 19:24, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

  • Comment Category has been emptied. Liz Read! Talk! 01:37, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
  • Delete speedily, an empty one. --Just N. (talk) 20:44, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Plazas in South America ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: keep. bibliomaniac15 04:53, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming:

:Nominator's rationale: Following the contents renamed below. – Fayenatic London 16:30, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Marcocapelle (talk) 19:23, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

  • Redirect, but all three should go to an equivalent {{cl|Squares and plazas in...}}. Though the current South American categories are all from Latin American countries, it is unlikely that Guyana, Suriname, or French Guiana would use the term plaza as default. Grutness...wha? 02:58, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
  • See related discussion here which proposes that the titles should be "Squares and plazas". Laurel Lodged (talk) 18:23, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Personally I would prefer it if all the categories were renamed "Squares" and the overall category was renamed :Category:Squares by country. Why are we singling out plazas when there are many words used in different languages? "Square" is a generic term in English for any formally laid-out urban open space, whatever it is actually called (and most of them are not square). Even in Spanish-speaking countries they are not all called plazas. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:42, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
  • Oppose per Necrothesp's reasoning above which seems convincing. --Just N. (talk) 20:47, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Fwiw, User:Laurel Lodged had added the following under the relisting notice in the original discussion:

== Plazas in Peru ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: keep. bibliomaniac15 04:53, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Squares in Peru to :Category:Plazas in Peru

:* Propose renaming :Category:Squares in Lima to :Category:Plazas in Lima

:* Propose renaming :Category:Squares in Trujillo, Peru to :Category:Plazas in Trujillo, Peru

:* Propose renaming :Category:Squares in Chile to :Category:Plazas in Chile

:* Propose renaming :Category:Squares in Colombia to :Category:Plazas in Colombia

:* Propose merging :Category:Squares in Bogotá to :Category:Plazas in Colombia (as WP:SMALLCAT)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Squares in Uruguay to :Category:Plazas in Uruguay

:* Propose renaming :Category:Squares in Montevideo to :Category:Plazas in Montevideo

:* Propose renaming :Category:Squares in Venezuela to :Category:Plazas in Venezuela

:* Propose renaming :Category:Squares in Cuba to :Category:Plazas in Cuba

:* Propose renaming :Category:Squares in El Salvador to :Category:Plazas in El Salvador

:* Propose renaming :Category:Squares in San Marino to :Category:Piazzas in San Marino

:Nominator's rationale: rename to match the names of the member articles, and of other Hispanic sibling categories within :Category:Squares and plazas by country. In the case of San Marino, this is to match contents and sibling :Category: Piazzas in Italy.– Fayenatic London 14:43, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Marcocapelle (talk) 19:22, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

  • Oppose. Personally I would prefer it if all the categories were renamed "Squares" and the overall category was renamed :Category:Squares by country. Why are we singling out plazas (and piazzas) when there are many words used in different languages? "Square" is a generic term in English for any formally laid-out urban open space, whatever it is actually called (and most of them are not square). Even in Spanish- and Italian-speaking countries they are not all called plazas or piazzas. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:58, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
  • Support - it seems reasonable to use the local name. I agree with Necrothesp that :Category:Squares and plazas by country should be :Category:Squares by country or preferably :Category:Town squares by country as it is a subcat scheme for :Category:Town squares, cf Town Square. (This is the usual usage of EngVar in category names - follow the article name down until we reach a local level.) Oculi (talk) 17:02, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
  • See related discussion here which proposes that the titles should be "Squares and plazas".
  • Oppose per Necrothesp's reasoning above which seems convincing. --Just N. (talk) 20:49, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Fwiw, User:Laurel Lodged had added the following under the relisting notice in the original discussion:

==Category:Deaths in Cairo==

File:Symbol move vote.svg Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 August 26%23Category:Deaths in Cairo

== Category:Hardball! series ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 06:13, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Hardball! series to :Category:HardBall!

:Nominator's rationale: Per HardBall! ZXCVBNM (TALK) 11:29, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

: Support Shooterwalker (talk) 16:36, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

: Support per nom – Broccoli & Coffee (Oh hai) 21:18, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

: Support per nom. --Just N. (talk) 20:53, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Alex Kidd games ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: keep. Withdraw by nominator. (non-admin closure) ZXCVBNM (TALK) 18:35, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Alex Kidd games to :Category:Alex Kidd

:Nominator's rationale: I had attempted to speedy move this category, but it was disputed since there was only a character article for the main series. I have since created a main series page, so there should be no issues any more naming the category after it, too. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 11:03, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

  • Oppose - this is a set category of video games (apart from 2 explanatory articles) and no reason has been given for conversion to a topic eponymous category. Oculi (talk) 14:13, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

==Category:Wikipedia variable-like templates==

File:Symbol move vote.svg Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 August 26%23Category:Wikipedia variable-like templates

== Category:Zamalek presenters of Egypt ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: speedy deleted by {{np|Materialscientist}} as WP:CSD#G5. ✗plicit 14:19, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Zamalek presenters of Egypt}}

:Nominator's rationale: Category loops and repeats to null result. Whiteguru (talk) 08:38, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

  • Delete - this is one of several creations by the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Abdo_mitwally_190 same editor], who appears to be confused. Oculi (talk) 10:11, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
  • Delete all. I've posted a welcome message to the user with explanations about creating articles; all of their category creations are really attempts to create an article rather than a category, and all of them should be deleted. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:22, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
  • Delete It was created by an obvious sock of blocked user {{u|Abdo Mitwally}}, and all of their creations should be G5'd as such. PohranicniStraze (talk) 14:14, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

== Category:Yaksha Kingdom ==

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: keep. bibliomaniac15 04:47, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Yaksha Kingdom}}

:Nominator's rationale: Duplicates :Category:Yakshas. Redtigerxyz Talk 12:42, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

  • If not kept, merge instead of delete. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:19, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac15 06:17, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

  • Keep - {{cl|Yaksha Kingdom}} is a topic category, parent of set category :Category:Yakshas (which it does not duplicate). Oculi (talk) 08:25, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
  • Keep per Oculi's reasons. --Just N. (talk) 20:58, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.