Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 June 20#Cardiac arrest deaths

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: soft merge (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 05:16, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Golf clubs and courses in Pittsburgh to :Category:Golf clubs and courses in Pennsylvania

:Nominator's rationale: Category with just two entries. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 23:41, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 05:24, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Algerian cosmologists}}

:Nominator's rationale: Created by globally blocked User:Authentise. Can be recreated if there's ever actually a need for it. PianoDan (talk) 16:42, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

• Delete Contains only Mustapha Ishak Boushaki, who is already in :Category:Algerian astrophysicists. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 03:30, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Mahesh Sty (talk) 13:27, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. ✗plicit 01:10, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Deaths from cardiac arrest}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths by country}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Algeria}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Argentina }}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Australia}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Canada}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in France}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in India}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Israel}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Italy}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Mexico}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Nepal}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Nigeria}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Peru}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in the Philippines}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Qatar}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Spain}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Switzerland}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in the United Kingdom}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in the United States}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Uruguay}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths by country subdivision}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Australia by state or territory}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Victoria (Australia)}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Canada by province or territory}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Quebec}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Italy by region}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Friuli Venezia Giulia}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Lazio}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Tuscany}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in the United States by state}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Washington, D.C.}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in California}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Maryland}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Michigan}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in New Jersey}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in North Carolina}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Rhode Island}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Tennessee}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Cardiac arrest deaths in Texas}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Deaths from cardiac arrhythmia}}

:* Propose deleting {{lc|Deaths from cardiopulmonary arrest‎}}

:Nominator's rationale: Collection of categories created in the last few days, mostly with a single member article. Not WP:CATDEF, people are not generally defined by having died from cardiac arrest, particularly for having died of it in a particular place.

:Also, I noticed that there are similar categories such as :Category:Cardiovascular disease deaths by country, but I don't have time right now to go off in all those directions—but I note that that one (created by the same editor as the above-listed cats) has a G4 speedy deletion tag on it right now for having been deleted previously after a discussion, Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 November 12#Deaths from cardiovascular disease. And that discussion's initiator referenced an earlier discussion, Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 September 15#Cardiovascular disease deaths. Someone might want to conduct a general review—is this a matter to raise at WP:ANI?—of categories recently created by User:20SS00 which might fall under the same deletion rationale. Largoplazo (talk) 11:30, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

:Follow-up: I've raised this at ANI. Largoplazo (talk) 13:02, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

• Delete all as WP:NONDEF. I think the same, as well as WP:OCLOCATION applies to broader :Category:Deaths by country subdivision, :Category:Accidental deaths by location, etc. Brandmeister^talk 12:49, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
• Delete all per the above and multiple previous discussions. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 17:04, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
• Delete all - the first of these was actually already deleted following another CFD two years ago, and the arguments haven't changed since then. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:06, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
• Delete all per WP:NOTDEFINING....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 10:35, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
• Delete all as this is not MorbidPedia and it is not defining.--Mvqr (talk) 11:22, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
• Comment: If someone has the time, all of 20SS00's recreations of the Cardiovascular diseases tree, as well as their newly created trees (Stroke-related deaths, etc.) will need to be taken care of. --Paul_012 (talk) 20:58, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
• Delete all. Not defining. Mahesh Sty (talk) 13:29, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
• Comment The categories for Argentina, Nepal, Texas, Uruguay and Washington, DC have been emptied. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:04, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: delete. ✗plicit 01:19, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

:* Propose merging :Category:Deaths from cardiopulmonary arrest to :Category:Deaths from cardiac arrest

:Nominator's rationale: Cardiopulmonary arrest redirects to cardiac arrest and looks like it's the same thing. Brandmeister^talk 09:41, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

::Yes, they may sound like they are the same thing and they are, except that the difference is that blood flow stops during a cardiac arrest, whereas breathing stops during a cardiopulmonary arrest. 20SS00 (talk) 12:44, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

• As the merge target will be deleted (see discussion above), delete this category too. Cardiopulmonary arrest and cardiac arrest is a trivial distinction except in medical context (which is not the case here). Marcocapelle (talk) 05:44, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
• Delete as well as all subcategories. Cardiopulmonary arrest (as well as cardiac arrest) is a mode of death, not an actual cause of death, and is thus never a defining characteristic. The suggested target should also be deleted anyway as recreation of a category previously deleted by consensus. --Paul_012 (talk) 05:47, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

:The result of the discussion was: rename to :Category:Political history of Crimea. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 22:05, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

:* Propose renaming :Category:Historical governments of Crimea to :Category:Former territorial entities in Crimea

:Nominator's rationale: rename, C2C per :Category:Territorial entities. Opposed for speedy. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:48, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

• {{ping|Hecseur|JASpencer}} pinging fellow contributors to speedy discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:52, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
• :Thank you for this, but where's the full discussion? JASpencer (talk) 17:34, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

::* {{ping|JASpencer}} it is supposed to start right here. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:47, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

:* {{ping|Marcocapelle|JASpencer}} Thanks for the ping! However, I oppose this proposal as the content of the category is not consistent with the entries contained in :Category:Former territorial entities; In this category, "former territorial entities" are divided into former administrative divisions, former colonies, and former countries: While most of the content of :Category:Historical governments of Crimea belongs to these different categories, creating an entire category specific to Crimea that contains all 3 just doesn't fit the way this category tree is sorted. There would need to be many different categories created relating to Crimean political history which can then be sorted under the former territorial entities category tree (all of which, of course, would be subcategories of the hyopthetical :Category:Political history of Crimea). Hecseur (talk) 12:45, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

::* I am puzzled by this argument. Why would subcatting in another part of the tree prevent having this category a name that describes its content properly? Marcocapelle (talk) 05:04, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

::*:Because it's inconsistent with how the category tree is organised. There is no category that :Category:Former territorial entities in Crimea fits in as a subcategory in this tree. :Historical governments of Crimea contains all 3 of the subcategories of former territorial entities (former administrative divisions, former colonies, and former countries), hence the only logical parent category to put it under would be :Category:Former territorial entities in Europe... Except it doesn't make sense, since there isn't a single region or country that's categorised that way. It's completely inconsistent with the logic at play. This is why I believe this category should be broken up to different subcategories about common historical/political subjects: That way, all of these different categories can both be sorted under the category tree of former entities, while also all being contained as subcategories of :Category:Political history of Crimea. Hecseur (talk) 06:06, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

::::* The only thing that you might conclude from other sibling categories by region not existing is that it is not a good idea to categorize former polities by region at all. That might be a fair point. Though we do have :Category:Former political entities in Afghanistan as a precedent. In any case it is not a reason to name the category different from what it actually contains. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:07, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

::::*:I agreee, I don't support the creation of :Category:Former political entities in Crimea either. The Afghanistan category is an exception, and in no way the norm, so it should be treated as such. Just as an example for what I meant in my earlier reply, consider a category called :Category:Republic of Crimea (1992–1995). Other than the main article , this category can consist of articles such as 1994 Crimean presidential election, Verkhovna Rada of Crimea, and others (Although some articles relating to the subject might have to be put in further subcategories). Under this title, the category can easily be put somewhere under :Category:Former subdivisions of Ukraine, while also being a subcategory of :Category:Political history of Crimea. This political history category can do the job of :Category:Historical governments of Crimea by bringing together all the categories regarding the "fomer territorial entities" in Crimea, while also adhearing to current wider consensus (as this type of categorising is common across nations and states, and even regions in some cases, like the contents of :Category:Political history of England by location). Hecseur (talk) 12:10, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

:::::But political history is wider than that, it includes things such as elections, political incidents and personalities. It would need a subcategory quite quickly for the unusually large number of former entities that controlled Crimea. What would you call that sub category? JASpencer (talk) 07:17, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

::::::These events can fit under the subcategory of the relevant former territorial entity. Just like 1994 Crimean presidential election would go under :Category:Republic of Crimea (1992–1995), a subcategory of :Category:Political history of Crimea, the same logic can be applied to all other relevant articles. It'd take a lot of recategorisation, but I believe this is the most logical way to handle this. Hecseur (talk) 08:13, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

• {{ping|Marcocapelle|JASpencer}} What do you think of my proposal? Do you have any feedback? Hecseur (talk) 01:16, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

:* It is better than the current name in the sense that it fits in an existing category tree. For the current content of the category it is unnecessary broad though. :Category:Political history of Crimea may be created as a parent category as soon as there is more content. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:27, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

:*I'm not sure what it intends to do. I've read it twice and still not understood it. Sorry for being slow here. 19:57, 10 July 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by JASpencer (talk • contribs)

• Comment The category appears to be "Former polities in Crimea or of which Crimea was part". :Category:Political history of Crimea might fit this, but I still do not like it. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:10, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
• :* I agree, the "of which Crimea was part" addition probably clashes with WP:CATDEF in some scenarios, too. With the approval from Marcocapelle I'll start working on :Category:Political history of Crimea and it's subcategories when I have some free time, unless someone has objections in the coming days. Hecseur (talk) 03:00, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
• Alt ? Can I get a concise alternative proposal if it's out there please? Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:53, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

:* {{ping|Laurel Lodged}} the proposed alternative by User:Hecseur is :Category:Political history of Crimea. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:49, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

::* Alt Rename to :Category:Political history of Crimea. Solves issues with current category and less wordy than original proposal. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:27, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

:I apologise for not responding earlier, I've been away for a few days. My proposal is indeed an Alt Rename to :Category:Political history of Crimea. I'm currently underway on on creating and listing all the subcategories/articles that can additionally populate this category, as it has a bigger scope than the original name. Some of the to-do list is currently on my user page. Hecseur (talk) 08:13, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

• Alt Rename to :Category:Political history of Crimea. Laurel Lodged (talk) 09:45, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

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:The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.